E12: Hot High Priestess

Transcript

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0:00 Hello, welcome to the Frankly Speaking podcast. Today I am joined by Hot High Priestess, also known as Sarah. She is a very popular content creator, does a lot of stuff with astrology and other mythical type stuff. Is that correct? I would say tarot and manifestation, mindset, things like that, but the spiritual realm is really what I post about. Very cool. So tarot. Could you repeat that for me? Is like tarot something mindset? Yeah, tarot manifestation and just like general mindset coaching. Very cool. So I guess kind of to start off, like what got you? Well, first, what got you into content creation? And then I guess we'll kind of go from there.

0:48 Yeah, I mean, so what got me into content creation was really like the start of TikTok, right? Because, um, at the time, this was actually about two years ago, almost exactly. I posted my first video on TikTok. Um, I was really into tarot at the time. So, um, it was very popular on YouTube. There were like pick a card readings trending. And I was like very obsessed with it. So I learned how to read tarot around that time. And I saw that it was like popping up on my for you page. It was like really, really popular at the time, um, two years ago, like right before the pandemic. Um, and so I don't know, I just felt this like calling almost to post tarot videos. Um, and so I did had no idea it would like blow up on the first try. Um, so yeah, I posted a video about two years ago. Um, it was actually a series of three videos. It was like the one you see is the one you're meant to hear type of thing. And one of

1:53 the videos got like a million views. And I was like, this is absolutely insane. And I'm sure you've felt the feeling where it's like the dopamine rush of like having your viral video. There's no drugs could ever compare, I feel, but yeah. So that's kind of how I got into it. Nice. That seems like a pretty, uh, common story for a lot of the creators. It's like almost started the pandemic. And then, um, as far as like that dopamine rush, I think it's artificial. So like I've heard even really big creators talk about it, like MKBHD. He's like this tech YouTuber. Um, yeah. So he had a video that hit like 150 million views and that's like more than any of his previous content ever. And he's like, yeah, there's like nothing saying that this is better than anything else. Um, and I think one of my first videos also hit like several million, but like, I think it's because it artificially pushes it out because it's

2:49 trying to get content creators addicted to making content. It's like chasing the dragon. And like, I have a feeling that it's not just for that first video, but like every X number of videos. So like, sometimes I'll have a video that has like really poor stats. So like, I guess like, you know, you probably also have found out that like, generally if something has like above a 10% like ratio and then like, I don't know, X percent comment ratio and shares and stuff, like you can kind of tell what's going to do well, even within like the first hour or first day, it's like you can guesstimate where it's going to go. Um, and I, you, I've started to notice that like, sometimes the ratios are really terrible, but it'll still be pumped out more. Um, because I think that it's like the system doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you think about like the promotion scheme, because when you promote a video, why wouldn't it always use the best algorithm to get your video to the most amount of

3:48 people possible? So I feel like there's like different algorithms and they like rotate them in and out. Yeah. I always wondered what, like, if there's like an actual set algorithm or if it's just like, if it's constantly changing, like, I feel like, do people actually know what the algorithm is or is everyone just speculating? I think it's a lot of speculation, but just based on like what I know about tech, um, I think it also changes on a sense of like people are making code changes. Um, and like how AI works. I don't want to hijack too much of this podcast. So I'll just briefly go over it, but it's basically like machines, teaching machines and testing other machines. And so like, as an engineer, you can tweak a bunch of like variables to get the outcome you want, which is to have viewers stay on TikTok for as long as possible. Um, but at a certain point, like humans have no idea what's going on. It's just like

4:41 a bunch of AI magic, uh, behind the scenes that you can kind of have a bunch of levers that you can pull. Uh, and then you can kind of view like, okay, this makes the view metric go up or down or whatever. Um, but yeah, it's like there's, I doubt there's a single like person or engineer that could explain it at this point. Yeah. We're all figuring it out. Never know. Um, but yeah, so go back, back to the tarot cards. I always thought it was tarot. It's tarot. A lot of people mispronounce it. I actually don't know why there's a T at the end. Who knows? What's the, um, the language of origin there? Um, I believe Italian. I believe like the origins of it are from Italy. Um, Rome or no, Milan or Rome. I'm not sure. But yeah, Italy, I'm pretty sure. So some sort of European. I was kind of, for some reason in my mind, I associated more with like Eastern mystical stuff, but I guess that's, I don't know if they're related at all. Yeah. Um, I mean, tarot has been used worldwide. I believe

5:42 the origins of tarot was that it was actually, um, the, the deck itself was, um, a Italian card game called Tarot Cheney or something like that. And it then was used for divination practices by like women. So, um, it was a card game. Some people still play it to this day. I don't know how you play it, but because honestly, a tarot deck is quite similar to like a standard deck of cards, just has like, it has like suits, things like that. So there's a lot of similarity there. Yeah. I'm only vaguely familiar because a video game I played, they like dealt you this deck and then like, depending on what you get, it would affect your like units and stats. Um, but as far as like the divination aspect, like, is it also kind of in the same realm as like, uh, palm reading?

6:32 Like, I know that's like a pseudo popular thing as well. Um, and then as far as like the cards yourself, like, do you have a deck of cards? Have you done any readings for like yourself or other people or? Yeah. So, um, I would say tarot is unique in that statistically speaking, right? The odds of like, in a deck of 78 cards with you, um, like each card has its own meaning, but it also has a different meaning upright versus reversed. Um, so statistically speaking, the odds of you having like, let's say seven cards, 10 cards laid out and those cards being the exact same as someone else are very, very low. So I feel like it's very unique in that sense that it's just very, it can be very specific.

7:19 I feel like a lot of tarot readers like to keep it more general, obviously, especially on TikTok, you're going to make it more general because it's like for a collective, but it can be very specific. And I think that's like the beauty of tarot is it, it just, it feels very personalized. Um, and a good tarot reader will get personal and you'll feel like it was really meant for you. Um, which is why I think it was really taking off on TikTok, but I would say palm reading is more so like astrology where it's like, it's your birth, like, um, like you're kind of just born with it, right? Like same with astrology, you have your own like birth chart. Um, so same thing with palm reading. I'm not a palm reader though, but, um, but yeah, tarot is unique because it's constantly changing. So the way we view it is like, as your current energy is changing, um, the cards that you're going to get are going to change. I see. So I, like you said at the beginning, it's more like

8:12 divination, future telling rather than like a predetermined here's your base nature or whatever. Yeah, exactly. So, um, the way I kind of explained tarot is it's like, it's tapping into your current energy to predict what, where your current energy is leading you. So it's not like this is your determined fate, but it's more like this is where you're heading. If you continue maintaining the same energy, if that makes sense. Yeah, I could see that. And I feel like that's also like, so I'm obviously like, I'm like very logically minded as this isn't like an area I've explored at all before, but just like kind of looking at it from the outside, it's like, this would actually be a lot harder to disprove as well. Cause like a lot of people will just give a ton of grief to astrology. Cause they're like, Hey, look at X, Y, Z. Like, you know, you can concretely disprove this. Like it logically doesn't make sense for, you know,

9:00 this birth thing or like this predetermined outcome. But then with tarot, cause it's constantly changing. There's also the aspect of like, you can't like disprove it because the future is always changing anyway. So it's like, even if you, right. Like butterfly effect type of thing. So I think that aspect is also kind of interesting. Yeah, absolutely. It's very, and I have to say, like, I was very logically minded. I mean, I still would say I am, um, but I was very like atheist, very like anti spirituality, um, before I got into all of this stuff. And I think at some point there were just so many coincidences where I was like, even if this is complete bullshit, like it's helping my life so much.

9:41 It's making me have so much hope. Um, and it's just so oddly specific that like, I can't ignore the reality of the situation here. You know what I mean? Like it doesn't make sense, but it, it, it just is what it is, you know? Yeah. I think that spirituality is pretty underrated. Like, so I still am an atheist, but like that aspect, um, I feel like it has, has been missing from my life. Like I'm pretty jealous of people who have either like a community or just like kind of belief in like more than just worldly things, right? Like more than just this. So some sort of like more, whether that's like religion or some other forms of spirituality, I think that like, it does bring a lot of benefit for a lot of people. Um, and like you said, it's, it's hard to say like whether it's true or not.

10:29 And there's like the, I forget, it might be called Pascal's Wager, where it's like, you should might as well try to pick a religion and believe in it because off chance that it's real, it's like, Hey, at least you picked one. Exactly. Exactly. Although like Pascal's Wager, but I took a theology class in college and I hated him, but yeah, no, it's true. I mean, I think at the end of the day, if it's benefiting you and it's not hurting someone else, like, what do you have to lose? And I also think the thing about tarot is it's such a, like, there are going to be readers who are just like, this is your future do with that as you will.

11:03 And there's going to be readers that are like, okay, like, what's the situation you're going through? Let me guide you through that spiritually. I find that a lot of the people that I work with, because I used to do like one-on-one readings, um, you know, obviously I read for myself and things like that. I feel like it just provides you with guidance because the, the tarot deck essentially like follows the themes of life. And so it's really like, it's just a bunch of like lessons in cards. So when you pull certain cards, it's like teaching you a certain lesson about the experience you're going through. It offers a different way or a different perspective to look at the situation.

11:39 So I really feel like if anything, it's just like a way of life more so than like anything religious or anything of that nature. And then you kind of mentioned that you already had previous clients. Like, have you thought about kind of continuing to pursue this avenue, whether that's like content creation and the tarot and the spirituality and the manifestation, which I kind of want to get into a bit later as well. But have you thought about continuing to pursue this path? And I don't know how much of your like current situation you wanted to be public, like, um, your like age and college status and stuff. But, uh, yeah, I guess like, what are your plans, uh, in terms of like future career and is it going to be involved with what you're currently doing?

12:28 Yeah. Oh my God. I'm so excited about this. Cause I was just telling Frank that I just finished college, which is really exciting. Um, and what's so interesting is like, I went into college, um, studying double majoring in education and history, like hoping to go be a teacher and go into education policy. Um, and then when things blew up, I realized very quickly that this could very well be a full-time opportunity for me. Um, so that was two years ago. And I'm very grateful that since then, like I've turned it into my full-time job and my business. Um, and it's been luckily very successful for me. So that's, I'm planning on continuing to pursue that. Um, um, especially the manifestation side of it. Um, because currently I have like a manifesting workshop, um, and yeah, I just want to continue with like the coaching aspect of manifestation. So that's what I'm doing right now. Those are my current plans, but I love education. Um, that was like my biggest

13:29 passion. And for me, I think the reason I was really drawn to manifestation was because of the parallels between what I was learning as an education and psych student, um, and manifestation. That's awesome. So it sounds like, I guess, well, one, you found both like monetary success, but also like potentially the larger reach of the platform. So I think that like a lot of people realize that on online platforms, like you make a random 30 second video could reach like a million plus people compared to like doing one local job as a teacher while you're still making a really big difference. You'll still only be able to influence like 30, 60 kids or so per year, every year. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, that's something I, you know, obviously had to debate because, you know, I was really passionate about teaching and education. Um, but I realized very quickly that my reach was a lot broader, um, on social media, obviously. And I was changing,

14:27 you know, instead of like you said, like 60 kids lives a day, like thousands and thousands of people's lives a day. Um, and so, you know, ultimately to, for me, like what I teach and what I coach people on is how to change your mindset so that you believe in yourself and the ability that you have to accomplish something, which I feel like is something so many students in the education system, you know, don't, aren't taught. Um, so in a way I feel like I'm kind of doing what I always wanted to do for my students, but for a larger audience. Yeah. Now that you've talked about it, I kind of came into this, like not sure what to expect, but for what it sounds like, it sounds like a lot of it more is just motivational. So it's, it's not really about like the mystical per se, like that's a way to wrap it and present it and share it and have people like buy into this methodology. Um, but that's like similar to any other self-improvement type methodology. Like if it works and it sounds like

15:23 it does, um, it could just be, it's more really about, like you said, self-improvement and having people just like believe in themselves rather than like, oh, what's your daily horoscope type of thing. Exactly. Exactly. And I think specifically for manifestation, which is like the art of like changing your thoughts to therefore change your reality. So much of that is psychology in spiritual terms, you know? Um, and I like, I think what's so interesting as people, I think, especially right now, like it's very trendy, obviously. I think a lot of people are very drawn to spirituality, but it's like the same thing that everyone's been saying, just wrapped in a different label, you know what I mean? Um, but I will say there are spiritual aspects to it as well. Um, and I think you can pick and choose like how much of spirituality you want in manifestation. Um, but at the end of the day, when you break it down to the, the, the things that manifestation coaches teach, like that stuff

16:23 therapists are teaching that stuff that self-help people and motivational speakers are talking about. So it's really all in the same. Um, but I do think there's an element of magic to it, you know? Um, so yeah, I think a lot of things like people can't explicitly explain the science. Like they do a bunch of studies with like placebos and find out like, Oh, you know, the people believing that they got a drug actually makes them healthier. Uh, maybe because it reduces stress, like maybe these like logical reasons, but in essence, it is somewhat like magic. It's like the power of belief or like the power of laughter or friendship and all these things that are like somewhat children's tales or like things that we tell little kids, make-believe stories. A lot of it is kind of real in a sense, um, which is really kind of interesting. Exactly. And I will. Um, so like one of the reasons I got into manifestation specifically was, um, because at the time when I like discovered manifestation,

17:27 I was learning about growth mindset, which is like, um, something studied by Carol Dweck in psychology. And it's this idea that if you tell students, for example, that they are capable of achieving, let's say an A, even though right now they might be at a C instead of telling them like, you have like having the fixed mindset of like, you have a C, sorry, like you're just not meant to succeed. If you, as a teacher tell them like, you're going to achieve an A, you have the ability to grow here. Um, studies have found that students become much more capable and likely to achieve an A, um, and I feel like, you know, in a way manifestation is pretty much that because if you continuously repeat to yourself, I am successful, I'm destined for success, you know, I'm destined to find love.

18:15 Just having the belief is going to make you more likely to achieve it. And again, like, I think a lot of people, you know, will look at spirituality and be like, it's a pseudoscience. And I'm like, well, make the connections here, you know? Um, and another thing is the reticular activating system, which is, um, our brains function to focus in on a particular thing. So for example, if you, if I'd asked you today, like how many red cars did you see when you walked around in your neighborhood, you probably wouldn't be able to tell me, but now that we've talked about red cars, now that it's in your head, you know, you're going to start noticing, oh my God, there's like a lot of red cars in my neighborhood. And that's how manifestation works. That's how the brain works, but it's also how manifestation works. Because when you're telling yourself I'm abundant, you're going to start to see abundance all around you. And reality is not like one of my favorite

19:06 quotes is there is no reality there, or there is no truth. There are only points of view. And like everything in life, our reality is the way that we choose things, the way that we, our brain neurologically perceives things, consciously perceives things. So if you can change your consciousness and the way you choose to perceive things, then your reality changes. That's just like, that's just psychology 101, you know? Yeah. And it's funny that you kind of mentioned all these things, because when I was younger, I actually also wanted to be a history major. I didn't want to be a teacher, though. And I was also really interested in psychology. And a lot of the things that you talked about, like the growth mindset, it even goes beyond that. It's like when people don't realize what they can achieve, they don't. And the whole manifestation thing, there's really famous examples of it too.

19:56 Like Logan Paul going to the mirror, being like, "Hey, I'm going to be the biggest social media influencer." Literally told himself every day in the mirror in the morning. And then I guess kind of wrapping it, looping it back around. As far as the growth mindset thing, it's like, as you mentioned, there were a bunch of studies and they all show that it is the correct way to kind of bring up your kids these days. Like telling them that over these very long decade years of studies, they find that people who have that mindset just achieve more, like they're more successful, make more money, happier, et cetera, et cetera. Exactly, exactly. And that's just like one example.

20:35 Then you also have all of the examples of like how things like meditation, for example, can literally like better your immune system, you know, reduce. There have been multiples, like one of my psych one-on-one classes, brain, mind and behavior or something like that was, we talked about how literally by meditating every day, like in a study, people who meditated every day were less susceptible to like being sick than the other people. You know what I mean? It's like your mind literally controls your body, the way that you act on a day-to-day basis. And those small, small actions eventually lead up to your ultimate destiny or reality or whatever it is. So mindset really is everything in my opinion, I think, especially when you come from a situation where you weren't raised with the best environment and maybe you weren't encouraged at all growing up. So I think a lot of people find manifestation and they're like, this is like the first time I've heard this,

21:36 this is the first time I've been encouraged and I have faith in myself. So yeah. Like kind of talking through this, it just seems like a much more positive spin on the way that maybe the genders are encouraged. Because I've noticed that like a lot of male encouragement is more about bringing you down, like tearing you down and then saying like, hey, like you suck, like you're fat, you're weak, you're poor. And now you need to buy my course to like fix that, right? Like I'm rich, I'm successful, let me teach you my secrets. So clearly you can't do it on your own. Whereas like this seems just like a much more healthy version of like, hey, you can do it. Like you should believe in yourself. Like you have all these things and you just have to like kind of, you know, will it into existence in a way. I was kind of thinking on this the other day where it's like, I think the reason that people do it the other way is that like

22:33 it might make more money. Like that pipeline is a bit more profitable because I read about like the X steps to like grow essentially a cult following or like the X steps to like convince people, like first you convince people that they have a problem and then you have a way to like fix their problem. But like a lot of people, if they're not convinced that they have that problem, then they might not necessarily like reach for a solution. Does that make sense? Marketing 101, yeah. No, that's so interesting. I never even thought about that because my demographic is like 90% women. So I think I would say it is definitely a much more like supportive and positive community. But you're right, like you have to, in order to sell something, you have to make people believe there is a problem. But I would argue like telling guys like you're broke and whatever it is, like eventually like if you keep, if you make it seem like so much of a problem,

23:34 you also have to convince them that they're, that you'd be able to have a solution for them. You know what I mean? But yeah, I think encouragement is definitely more seen around the female demographic. Yeah, I've also seen where it kind of shows that like females just in general seem to have more positivity in the self-improvement space where like in the male space, it seems a lot of it, even though people are tearing each other down, males are like accepting of that. It's like we're used to getting kind of bombarded by negativity, just like even in casual day-to-day life, like we're roasting each other all the time. But then a lot of people take it still decently well. Like if someone calls you fat, you're like, yeah, you're right. I should go work out. Whereas like, I think it's not really acceptable to say that to a woman these days. Like it's, it's like you don't see, at least I don't see anyway. I see like plus size models, which is like super common nowadays,

24:35 but I have yet to see a plus size male model like featured prominently everywhere. And I think that's like both genders kind of shit on them. Right. Cause like, if you see like a fat dude, he's not getting compliments from anyone. Right. Like if you see a fat woman, like she's going to get compliments from women at least, like guys are probably not going to compliment her, but it's kind of like this double standard. Um, but it's, I think it's a bit more complex than the double standard. Cause like, I think women are more prized for their beauty and then guys are more prized for like their money or career or whatever. Um, so it's a bit more nuanced, but I still think that like dichotomy is, is kind of interesting. Why do you think that exists? I'm curious amongst men, amongst men. I think a lot of it has to do with competition. Cause it's kind of like, I guess the theory is that like you, I think that men are maybe because of like testosterone,

25:29 just a lot more like they go, they reach for the tops. Like they go more extreme. And like, I guess the kind of famous, not famous, but a relevant point where like, um, misogynists always say like, Oh, women are really bad at driving. And then the counter to that is like, Oh, well, why do men, um, get charged more for insurance because they are in more accidents. And then, but then when you look into the data on like what is actually going on, uh, men are in much more high speed accidents. So like the majority of like low speed accidents are from women.

26:01 And that's, and it actually has to do with like our biology. So like men have like this way to perceive objects in 3d space more accurately than women. And so that would explain the like discrepancy there. But then as far as like the risk taking ability, I think a lot of it has to do with testosterone and just natural biology. Um, and then obviously. Sorry, the hunter mentality. Maybe. I don't know. I've read different things on the hunter theory because before it was assumed that like all women stayed home and did like child rearing. But then there are other anthropologists who are like, well, no, like someone, women also helped with the hunt. Because if you think about it, it's like both genders can throw a spear. Um, and a lot of it is more like teamwork rather than like an individual hunter taking down a woolly man. Uh, so yeah, it's really hard to say, but like as far as like why I think that is, I think a lot of it comes down to biology and then obviously cultural.

27:00 Um, I think there are like inherent differences. So like, I think a lot of it has to do with like the hormones that our bodies produce. And like you mentioned earlier before, like a lot of it is mind. Um, yeah. And this is only semi-related to our point that we're talking about, but also more research has come in and saying like a lot of it has to do with our gut biomes and like what we eat and how, even though we're so smart, a lot of what we do is actually influenced by just really basic bodily urges. Like if you're hungry, so there is like a study done on judges. And if they gave out harsher sentences, so like basically before lunchtime, judges would consistently give out harsher sentences and they can justify it however they want. Cause these are smart dudes, right? Uh, smart people. So they can have whatever nuance and logic and reasoning, but it turns out it's like, no, they're just in a bad mood because they're hungry. So stuff like that.

27:54 Um, let's hope I don't get sued and have a judge before lunch. Like that's crazy. I mean, yeah, I think it all comes down to like biology instinct with men though, especially I feel, you know, I feel like men are more instinctually inclined to do things. Um, and I feel like society almost nourishes or encourages the instance of men. Um, yeah. Yeah. It's kind of weird in a corporate setting though, because like the same thing that a man can be praised for, a woman will get shit on. So like being assertive is always typically seen as a positive if you're a guy, but as a woman, you have to balance it. You can't be too assertive, but you also can't be like a pushover. And it's like a, you know, you're walking this tight rope of trying to navigate corporate politics. Um, and then like another layer on that, like the ethnicity that you are also makes a huge difference. So like, uh, if you're black and you're really aggressive, people are like, Oh, that's a thug. Right. And that's, that's kind of

28:57 messed up, but that's kind of what I've seen even at Netflix, right? People, uh, it's, it's really weird. Like racism is totally a thing in the tech industry. I mean, pretty much everywhere, but it's really noticeable in tech as well. Um, but if you're white and you do the exact same thing, like no one will blink an eye. Um, and then for me, like I'm Asian, well, I look Asian, right? But I'm very Westernized. Like I grew up in the West, but if I'm overly aggressive, people are like, Hey, you're out of line. And I'm like, dude, what it's, and you know, you can't concretely say it was because of my race or whatever, but it's, I don't know. It's again, I guess kind of veered off topic, but, um, going back to relevant. Yeah. Going back to your audience, like, what do you think, or why do you think that manifestation appeals a lot more to women than to men? Because like, I have never really looked much into it, but like talking through it with you, like,

29:53 it sounds very positive. Like, it sounds like a lot of men would kind of resonate with the message of, like, Hey, believe in yourself and like, you can do it if you think you can do it. Right. I mean, exactly. And I, I hope that in the future, more men are open to it, which is why I was like, so happy that you reached out. Cause I was like, wow, like that's awesome. You know? Um, but I think what it comes down to is spirituality. I mean, you know, there's like feminine energy and masculine energy and spirituality as a whole is a very feminine energy type thing. Um, so on a spiritual level, I think that's why women are more drawn to spirituality. Um, but just logically speaking, I think part of it is one society, like the fact that men are supposed to be tough and, you know, never be in pain and never mentally, you know, never be in a mental state of like distress or whatever. Um, and I think in general society encourages women to heal themselves. It's just

30:58 like a society thing, but I also think it's the way social media frames like manifestation, spirituality and all of that. Um, it's, you know, we, we do like, um, you know, a manifestation journal, moon water, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And all these like girly type things that I think men, you know, would be judged for, for doing. Um, so I think part of it is that, and also representation, I think the spiritual community is primarily comprised of women and LGBTQ people. So I think it comes down to that. Um, but I really hope moving forward that more men are a part of the spiritual community because it's, it really is an amazing place and has changed the lives of so many. And I will say, I have a lot of clients who are men. Um, they're a lot more quiet than the women, but the changes I see in them is astonishing because I feel like they tap into a part of themselves that they literally never have, you know, and they're able to express themselves in a way they never have.

32:04 And I think that's really important touching the feminine energy, that side of them. Um, it's very powerful, but yeah, I think it just comes down to like society. I mean, you shift society a little bit. It's really funny that you, you mentioned like feminine and masculine energy, because like in a sense, feminine energy is just being emotionally intelligent, like knowing how to be in touch with your feelings and knowing how to communicate with others. And like, men don't have that. Like guys are just, we're just stunted. We're like children. Um, yeah.

32:38 Yeah. So I think that's, it's funny because like,

32:43 I think that, so women already like mentally mature much more quickly, but then it's especially evident when you look at a playground. So like, there's like many Game of Thrones going on when girls are in middle school and guys are just like, you know, playing sports, fighting each other. And like you said, like we don't, I think guys, they bond by doing stuff. So like, we'll go ride our bikes or go play a game of basketball or like go camping or whatever. But then women bond by talking. Like my wife still talks to people all the time, like calls all her friends and family and stuff. Like I've done that less than a dozen times my entire life. Like, it's just not a thing that guys do. Um, I don't know why, but like, it's not a thing. Um, yeah. And I think that's really damages our society because like people being made fun of for doing feminine things. Like that's just, that's dumb. I think whenever people shame each other, and that's one part I really don't like

33:40 about the self-improvement side of the, of males is like, it's so much based around like you are inadequate. And I think that's, you know, that's just not true in a sense because like people have so much potential to do whatever they want. And yeah, I don't know. It's, I don't know where I was going with this point, but, um, I think that guys, if they were truly like confident in themselves, like they wouldn't worry about others judging them for whatever, right? Like whether it's society or other people, if people are truly confident in themselves, they'll do whatever they want. Like whether that's a female or male, like you just kind of don't listen to other people's judgments and do whatever is right for you. And as you mentioned earlier, as long as you're not hurting anyone, like you're just doing it for yourself, like it, I think it's great. Cause like, like everyone's benefiting in a sense. I know. And going back to what you were saying about,

34:37 like, first of all, I think that's really insightful for me because I've seen it for sure. Especially like, you know, when you're scrolling on your for you page and it's like 12 p.m. And then you see like, or 12 a.m. And you see that one video of like a dude being like, get the fuck up. Like you're a piece of shit. You're so lazy. I'm like, dude, I'm trying to go to bed. Like this video and it's like me and I'm like, Oh my God, you're amazing. And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, so yeah, it's, it's definitely a contrast, but I don't think I ever like realized it because I don't think I necessarily attract that demographic at all. But yeah, I, and I think like, I would bet, um, on the fact that like manifestation coaches have way more successful clients than these like male, you know, coaches who like, you know, try to make you feel like shit because I mean, at least in my philosophy, it is like, you don't attract what it is that you want. You attract what

35:34 you believe that you are. You know what I mean? So if you're constantly being told you're fat, you're broke, like, and that's your identity, that's who you identify as. That's exactly what you're going to continue being and who you'll become. And the way that we kind of teach it is like, you have to already think from the, the identity of who you want to be. You have to show up as that person, as that person who's already skinny, that person who's already rich and successful, you know? So I feel like, and I don't know, maybe, well, I will say one thing. I think men instinctually are really, um, driven by competent, like we were saying competition, but specifically by challenges.

36:17 And you learn about this, like when you go into like the psychology of dating, because men love a challenge. Men love to chase after women, you know, like to, like, it feels so much more satisfying to, you know, pull a woman who is, you know, like hard to pull than someone who's openly available, right? Because of that challenge. Whereas I feel like when like a man who's not, you don't like to like chase, because again, it goes back to feminine and masculine energy. Feminine energy is receiving energy and masculine energy is pursuing energy. And so I think in a way, maybe it is more encouraging for men specifically, um, to improve themselves when they feel like there is that challenge.

36:59 Um, but I think for women, we have to, it also goes back to growth mindset. We have to believe that we can become that person. Um, so yeah, I don't know, but it's interesting seeing the, the contrast there. Yeah. I mean, I would guess that you're completely right. And that the growth mindset, like positivity is going to work better. Like even going back to psychology one-on-one, one of the first things you learn is that, uh, essentially punishments don't work. And like, the only thing that changes behavior is positive reinforcement, uh, or negative reinforcement, which is for people who don't know the taking away of something painful. So like, if you have a pin in your shoe, removing that, um, is also effective, but not punishing someone, right? Like not shitting on them. And like, I'm, I bet they've probably done a study on this.

37:48 Maybe I feel like a lot of studies that they do is essentially just taking common sense and then quantifying it. And then being like, here's a hypothesis. Let's actually measure it. It's like, Oh yeah. What do you know? We found out this is actually the case. Um, but I'd be surprised if that just because it's popular right now, and because it kind of goes in line with our societal standards that tearing people down builds them up. Cause like you said, if you're have, if you have a low self-esteem and people are keeping it where it's at, like, how do you get, how do you, how does that change to becoming high self-esteem? It's like, this course is not going to change it, right? You learn some techniques, but it's like your sense of self doesn't really change. Um, and then even looking at popular examples or these studies, like all the people who achieve, like they have that growth mindset. They have, they believe in

38:38 themselves. It's not like they got the secrets from some guru who sold them a $25 monthly course. Um, it's, this is the people who like believed in themselves. Exactly. Exactly. And I don't think that people who are successful are going in the mirror and saying, I'm a fat piece of shit. No, they did that. I'm going to be exactly who I want to be. And so, yeah, I think it always goes back to like growth mindset and like the shit that I teach, you know? So a hundred percent. Yeah. I think that it's like, it's also challenging in a sense to get that message to males. Cause I bet people are making this type of content, but it does, it's not popular because like, it doesn't resonate for some reason.

39:21 Um, and it's hard to say why. Yeah. I wonder, like, I feel, I don't know. It's hard to reach the male audience, especially with the way that I present my information. Um, and I mean, also I can only speak for myself and my experiences. And a lot of what I do is like love manifestations. So, you know, it gets difficult there, but I wonder how, you know, as self-help manifestation coaches, how we can reach those people, you know, I don't know. Um, but I found that comedy resonates really well. Like low brass, crude humor resonates well with the male population, regardless of the age. Like, if someone tells me a really good, just kind of like low crass joke, I'll still probably laugh, even though I know it's like completely immature and it's not funny in like the,

40:21 I guess, intelligent sense or like comedic sense, but it'll just be like low brass humor. Um, that does pretty well, but then it's hard to like have an informational message in a joke. So I think that comedians do this extremely well. Um, a lot of male comedians, um, that are able to weave an actually insightful message, but within the context of like a larger comedy sketch where you intercede it with points that are more easily digestible, that keep people engaged. Because like, if you just kind of drone on about like, here's how to do X, Y, Z, here's all the benefits. People like attention span are just shot these days. Like they're not going to sit through that.

41:00 Like even 15 seconds is too much. Like they'll scroll away within the first three. Um, but I think comedy is one way, but it's again, it's like not everyone is funny and it's, it's hard to say what people will find funny. Like if you are not a professional comedian, I think there are some funny people on TikTok, but like not a bunch of like naturally funny ones. I think a lot of it is scripted a hundred percent. Yeah. And, and obviously humor is going to reach a lot of people, but it's so hard to be funny, you know? Um, so yeah, but I, I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. That I think it's a really good skill when like a comedian is able to have a message in their skit. Um, and it's a really good way to like reach an audience.

41:46 And I feel like a lot of comedians are on the rise on my FYP lately. I don't know if you've been seeing it too. Like that Matt guy. I don't know. No, my FYP is full of like family guy skits right now. So yeah, but comedy is kind of taking off right now. Yeah. Oh, I want to circle back to something you mentioned earlier that that was kind of interesting. So the like love manifestation or something, could you get go a bit more into that? Yeah. I mean, so I, I mean, I've tried making videos about numerous things that people are trying to manifest weight loss, you know, careers, what have you love is always going to be the thing that people are the most interested in. Um, and that was actually like why I went viral in the beginning, um, was because I made tarot videos about love and relationships.

42:36 Um, and I think like, it's one of the most, I think love is one of the most misunderstood or hard to like conceptualize or like quantify things of life. Like there's no set thing. Like if you got ghosted, like, you'll always wonder why you got ghosted and you always question it, but there's no like clear cut answer. You know, it's like, if the, you know, if your, um, business isn't doing well, there might be a reason as to why it's more clear cut, but when things go wrong in love, it's like, oh, like, I don't know what it is. Um, and so I think a station gives people a lot of control in love, it seems. Um, and people, I think a lot of the times want that control in their love lives. So what I teach, um, you know, through the various methods that I make videos about and whatnot, it teaches people how to get their own control back in their life, love lives. Um, and a lot of that stems from self-concept, kind of like what we've been talking about this whole time, which is

43:42 like something I preach is that the only way you'll ever change the behaviors of other people, like your love interest is by changing your own view of yourself. So if you want them to think you're more attractive, you have to think that you're attractive. And I mean, that's like basic common sense, but like sometimes just hearing it in the terms of manifestation just makes it click for people. So, yeah. Yeah. Cause like what you talked about, a lot of it seems to stem from psychology, like basic things like, oh, if you think you're more attractive, your body language is going to show it, your tone of voice, and all of these contribute to your attractiveness. And as we've been kind of talking about this entire time, it's all about the packaging or the messaging. It's like, you can present this information in a bunch of different ways, but manifestation just seems to resonate a lot more with the female population. Exactly. Yeah. Um, and I think also part of it

44:32 is like with social media, you like, there's a lot of like trends, obviously, and things like that. So one thing that was really taking off for me was the whisper method. Like it's been featured in like Glamour and Cosmo and all of this. Um, so yeah, that was like really successful. And I think just like packaging ideas up into these bite-sized methods, um, and whatnot, it just like really resonates with people. And I see that in every niche on, uh, TikTok. Like, if you just have like the method, people are way more likely to listen and, you know, actually, uh, follow whatever you're saying.

45:10 But yeah. Yeah. It's like, here are the XYZ hooks that you should use. Like, hey, here are the top three things. Or like, let me tell you a secret. Or I read through a lot of them. Um, I found it's not always that consistent. I find the list one is super consistent. I see some people who just, the entire account is that they're like, Hey, here's a top 10 XYZ. And you see that stuff on like BuzzFeed. Um, and I don't know, I haven't seen anyone who's made been able to consistently make like, uh, every single video with like one specific method, unless it's like a dance. Like if someone's known for like a dance, like that dance will always blow up. Um, but as far as like, have you seen that success? Like whenever you say, Oh, XYZ method, like those videos just consistently do well, or like what other hooks have you seen that kind of trend positively?

46:03 So I think anything that will, where you're going to tell them, like you'll get results overnight or in a day, or here's how to manifest a text in one minute. That's always going to do really well because people love efficiency. Um, they love to see results right away. So that's first of all, um, anything that has like a method attached to it. That's simple to follow. People love that. Um, I think, what is it? What else? Yeah. Like anything that gives them like a concrete, like, you know, have a specific like end result in mind where they can, what it'll look like. That's been successful. So saying, instead of saying, here's how to get communication from your ex or whatever, to say, this is how you're going to manifest a call or a text or whatever it is. Um, but lately what's been really popping off for me is just like talking about like, or like doing little snippet videos where I'm like, um, Oh my God, why can't I stop thinking about her blah, blah, blah. Turn

47:02 my head, the love letter method, you know, um, people love the sensational aspect of it. It's very theatrical. I feel, um, and ritualistic. That's the other thing. It's like, people love a good ritual. And I'm reading the 48 laws of power right now. And one of the laws of power. It's so good. I don't like that. Yeah. I don't like it. Yeah. You say what you want. But, um, one of the things he talks about is like how people love like a good ritual and like feeling like, you know, like, yeah, they're part of something. Yeah. Yeah. Part of something. Exactly. Part of a movement.

47:39 So that's what I think it is, is people feel like they're part of like this movement in a sense that's benefiting them. So yeah. Yeah. I think what you said about the focusing on the results makes a lot of sense. And like Apple employed this in all their marketing strategies. So like when Microsoft was trying to advertise their zoom, they're like, Hey, you have 80 gigabytes of storage on this phone. And like to the consumer, they're like, yeah, all right. What does that mean? And Apple's like, Hey, you have 10,000 songs in the palm of your hand. And that's just people like, Holy crap, 10,000 songs. They're like, they're saying the same thing, just packaged in a way where like one people are like, Oh, I want that thing. And the other ones that people are like, yeah, okay, whatever, I guess.

48:21 That's a really good way to put it. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. TikTok's just like taking marketing and like putting in like a 15 second video. It's, it's all the same thing recycled. So yeah. But it's interesting to learn like what specifically does well. And it takes a lot of like trial and error. Have you found like, like a strategy that works for you? Um, so I have like a decent barometer for what will do well. Like if I wanted to strictly grow, if I wanted to just get the most followers possible, I would just post like the same three videos over and over again because they always do well. So like one is like teaching people how to get a basically high-end tech job. Because like you said, if you focus on the result and then I'll be like, Hey, here are my credentials. Here's how you do it. And people will share like crazy because well, one, they probably have friends in the industry or, and then the second video that

49:17 always does well is sharing salary information. Um, and that's just because it's kind of like taboo to talk about it within American culture or just society in general, where as like people don't have a lot of insight into how much money people make. So when they're seeing like, Oh wow, this guy's sharing salary information. And I've seen a lot of other creators also have those videos consistently do well. It doesn't even have to be your own. It could also just be like salary progression of like a nurse or a doctor or a lawyer or whatever, X, Y, Z. Um, and then the third type of video that typically does well is if I tell a personal story, um, just because I think a lot of people also share the experiences of like being an immigrant, being poor, and then seeing the success that came out of that gives them either they can identify with it. They're in like the earlier stages or that gives them hope to see like, Oh, well, here's a person who came from like a similar

50:13 background, similar situation, similar interests, whatever. And now that they've like, you know, quote unquote made it. And, but I don't know how, like, I guess to more general, to generalize those, generalize those things. One is the first method is very similar to what you were kind of already talking about is focusing on the results and then teaching people like, here's how you get it. Um, and then the second one is more just like, I think more societal. I think if salary information was more publicly available, it wouldn't do well anymore. But you know, as a society, we're probably years away from that, if not decades. Um, and then the third one, as far as the story, I think stories will always be popular. And you see some of the top creators, they have blown up through stories like that's their content. And they're able to tell like very engaging stories of even the most mundane things. Um, I think that like right now, one of the, I'd say that Erica

51:08 Titus is probably one of the top creators, like in the world right now, like, yeah, on the almost on the level of like KSI. Yeah. And like, yeah. And I like, I don't understand the appeal as a guy. I'm sure her, her audience is also like 90% female plus. And I was trying to ask my wife, cause she's, she's super into Erica and her sister. Um, and I was like, what, what is the appeal? Like, I don't get it. Cause I've tried watching her videos and tried to like dissect, like, why does this have several million views? Like nothing, nothing happened in this video. Like, there's no knowledge transfer. There's nothing. She's like, oh, it's like, it's cause they're messed up. And I'm like, what, like, what do you mean? It's like, oh, cause they're like normal people.

51:46 They're messed up. They have flaws and like, it's comforting in a sense. And I'm like, huh, that's very interesting. Cause like, I can't see an equivalent male creator ever reaching that heights from the same appeal. Cause like guys, they want to see people in like very high status position, like super rich or wealthy or famous or popular or whatever. And they're kind of their way of manifesting is they're in their minds. They're thinking like, oh, I'm going to be like this guy in the future. Like I'm going to have this status or this wealth or this popularity that I don't currently have. Um, whereas on the exact opposite end of the spectrum, now we have Erica Titus. It's like, she's not that well-spoken. She's just like kind of normal in a lot of ways, I guess. But then people are like, oh, I love that. Like I identify with that. Like, this is great content. Like, let me consume it. Um, but I don't know what your thoughts are on that.

52:38 She's so engaging. I don't know what it is, but when I, you know, when she pops up on my FYP, it's like, I don't even care what the story is, but I'm just like tuned in. And I don't, I don't know if it's like the way she starts it off or it's, I think it's the fruit to be honest. Cause I noticed that videos without fruit don't do as well, but like, maybe it's like the meeting to see it, you know, be fully cut open or whatever. Or like a lot of women, um, on my FYP are really successful when they do like, get ready with me videos. And so you just almost want to stick around to the end just to see their full face of makeup. But you're also there for the story, you know? Um, but yeah, she's very engaging. And I think going back to what you were saying about, um, like the way that men are operating versus women, it's like, it goes back to like the competitive and challenge aspect for men. It's like, they have to be that man. Whereas for women, it's very,

53:30 like we're all kind of friends. We're all sisters, you know, we all work together to get to a certain place. Um, we have to relate to each other, which is why I think a lot of relatable content as well for women in the storytelling niche. Um, but yeah, storytelling is in, and I have to say, that's why I really was drawn to your content because I resonate so much with your story of like being an immigrant, being broke and then getting out of it, you know? So it works. And I'm not even into like, per se, computer science or any of that stuff. Um, but your story was like what resonated with me.

54:06 And I love your content. I have to say, I'm a huge fan. Thanks. Yeah. I think it's, it's much more common than people think like being poor and then not being poor. And it's like the classic American dream. And, um, even if it's becoming more rare nowadays, like if you actually look at the stats, social mobility is like lower than it's traditionally been. It's actually trending down. Um, unfortunately, but like people want to believe in it. Like they want this to be possible. And I think like, in a sense, it's almost like providing hope, like similar to like the manifestation. It's like you're, you're manifesting, uh, but you're also given a glimpse of like the future. It's like, Hey, this is possible. Like it's, you know, I don't have to stay poor forever. I don't have to be like this broke immigrant.

54:53 Like, you know, here's someone who did it. Here's exactly. Yeah, exactly. It's exactly. I'm telling you, we're all saying the same thing, but in different packaging, different font. Like, like, I think when you're able to visualize yourself as that person and change, do the identity transformation and the self-concept work where you're like, I'm no longer going to like, that's not my story to tell anymore. Like, that's what the, uh, that's when I flipped the switch or yeah, whatever was when I was like, I'm so sick and tired of telling myself this story that I'm a broke immigrant, that I can't afford college, that like, that's my destiny. I'm going to be a broke team.

55:32 No, like I said, starting today, that's not my story to tell anymore. And, you know, I started seeing videos on my FYP of like your story and whoever else's story. And I was like, if he could do it, I can do it. You know, what's stopping me. Um, and then what you were saying about like the social mobility thing, I think it's really interesting because I'm noticing, you know, obviously I'm graduating college and I'm noticing with a lot of my friends, they're really struggling to get jobs, people who have, you know, master's degrees, things like that.

56:04 But then on the other, you know, the flip side, I'm also in the realm of social media. And I'm feeling, I feel like that's the new like method of social mobility. That's like taking off right now is like, if you can get social media and start your own business, your life can change overnight. And I don't think that's possible in any other way, really. I mean, maybe computer science, actually, um, is the closest thing in a nine to five cents to that. But I'm seeing so many people that I know take the media and start their own businesses and have that social mobility. So I feel like that's, what's going to be the next thing. Yeah, definitely content creation is on its way up. Like there's a ton of VC money flowing into the space. There's like five different like tree competitors that will do effectively the same thing. And I read a stat that in 2021, if something like 1% of the entire population considers themselves a content creator or has like made content of

57:06 some form, whether that's like a YouTube video and TikTok or what have you. Um, and that number is probably going to go up. And like, I remember 10, maybe 15 years ago, I'm like, I'm pretty old. I'm in my thirties. And it was really frowned upon to have your public persona on the internet. People were like, Hey, don't put your information out there. It's going to get stolen. You're going to get your identity hijacked. And now like people have their entire lives out there, like all their tweets going back to when they were being racist. Cause I, that used to be a really in thing. Like if you dig up people's old tweets, you're probably going to find some trash in there. That's not acceptable by today's societal standards, but back then we're like, everyone was doing it. Um, so I think it's, I don't know. I think it's going to be a really interesting future. Cause like thinking about in like 10, 20 years when my kids see the stuff that I'm making now, like, that's just a really weird

57:56 thought. Like, I don't, I kind of don't want them to see it. Cause I feel like a lot of the stuff that I say now, obviously it's going to be horrible, but like just complete cancelable type content in, you know, 20 years where people are like, wow, Frank was such a bigot for saying X, Y, Z. Um, and that's because kind of just like society moves and views that were previously okay are kind of become outdated, uh, you know, for good reasons. But, um, it's interesting that you, you said about the, um, social media being one of the ways to like break through the societal walls, because I think that a lot of people underestimate three things. And it's like basically the types of leverage you can have as an individual. So if you think about like the downfall of a nine to five, it's essentially because you only have 24 hours per day. And so if you're only leveraging your own manpower, like you'll never, you can't, you might become pseudo wealthy.

58:57 Like you might be a lawyer or a doctor or engineer and get paid like a decent amount, but you can kind of like upgrade your lifestyle along with it. And your compensation will grow linearly, but never exponentially. Um, and then, so the three forms of leverage, like one is manpower. And this is the common one. This is why everyone wants to be a manager. Like, oh, I want people working under me. It's like, so now instead of me just doing work, I now have like three people or five people or, you know, an entire department of minions, essentially doing stuff that I want to. Um, and that only works in a business sense because unless you're the business owner, you're not actually controlling the fruit of that labor. Like that goes to the shareholders.

59:38 Um, but it does work if you have a business and then like the second form of leverage is money. So capitalistic society, money is always going to be the king. Um, people, someone actually wrote a really in-depth technical book about it saying how your salary will never outpace a rich person's just like accumulation of wealth is uses way to make money is to have it. And then three, um, third form of leverage is like technology. So this encompasses both like coding and social media and like marketing, basically anything that you're able to replicate infinitely for a very low cost. So like whether that's a TikTok or YouTube video, or if you're writing like a blog post even, or even like this podcast, right? Like you make it once, it can be consumed hundreds, millions of times, no additional efforts. Um, and that's why software still falls within that realm of like good careers to pursue because just like social media, once you learn how to code, once you write software, you have this

1:00:30 tireless worker that will always do what it tells you. Like it's not going to quit on you. It's never going to like fall apart assuming you coded it correctly. Um, and I think a lot of people don't quite understand that because people are still fed the whole age old story of like, Hey, study hard, go to college, get a job, uh, but not really understanding like how money works or how to gain leverage out of your own time without just kind of working for one company forever.

1:00:59 Exactly. Couldn't have said it better. And that's, I mean, obviously for me, that's like really relevant because I was fed that story. And that's like the only thing I believed like going into college and two years ago. So like my sophomore year was when I, you know, blew up on social media. And I still thought like, even when I was making like a teacher's salary, I was like, you know, things can change this and that. And I think, um, one thing I noticed that society just continues to push is this idea that like, like $10,000 a month is like a lot of money, you know, like, and, and that, like, I think we have a very like capped mindset around money. Like there's a, like, we have a limited belief around money. Like, how do I say it? Like not a deficit mindset, but more so like, uh, like there's just a cap on money. It's not unlimited.

1:01:52 There's like one pie instead of infinite pies. Exactly. Exactly. But once you shift your mindset to like an abundance mindset where you're like, money is literally infinite, um, essentially. Um, and you know, when you're working a job in social media or you run your own business, it like, you start to see it, you start to see it. You're like, it is unlimited. It's it, I can essentially make however much I want. It just depends on, you know, a number of factors, but the potential is there. Whereas when you're working a nine to five, obviously there's a cap. And I think that's why we have such a limited mindset around money.

1:02:25 Um, but yeah, it's, it's a very new thing for me. And it's, it's just, I never thought I'd be one of those people to be like passive income or F a nine to five. I've really never thought I would. And then it's like, you get thrown into running your own business and it's like, wow, like this is incredible. And the freedom it affords you in life is priceless in my opinion. Um, I think that's a phenomenon. A lot of younger creators are facing right now is like, we're very young and we're forced to deal with running a business, you know, when we maybe never even intended to in our lifetimes.

1:03:02 Um, and it's, I mean, it's a blessing, but it's very difficult, you know, because if you don't have someone to look up to when it comes to that, it is, it's, it's hard figuring out the ropes. What is an LLC? How do taxes work when your friends are still in college? You know, it's not easy. Um, but yeah. And I also think, uh, you know, you were talking about like kids earlier. Um, I never even thought about that. And that like really made me think like, oh my God, what are my kids going to think when they see me on like TikTok? I never thought about that. I mean, obviously that's like down the line, but yeah. How old are your kids?

1:03:36 Uh, they're both below five. I don't want to like to share like too many specific people. They're younger. Okay. So there's some time there, but yeah, like one day your kids are going to see your stuff on social media and that's, that's crazy. Like that's the new reality right now that we're kind of getting into. Cause back in the day you were right. Like back in the day, I feel like people didn't really share much on social media if they were content creators and it was almost very like made fun of kind of to be a content creator. It wasn't a normalized thing. And now it's trendy now. Like, I mean, especially in my age demographic, like you'll know, like a handful of friends who are like making content, you know, or TikTokers or stuff like that's so common now.

1:04:18 Like now having a million followers on TikTok is like seen as nothing, you know? And that's crazy. But yeah, it is insane. Yeah. And it's crazy that you mentioned how it's like mostly the young demographic because it's like, I've been on calls with, um, people wanting me to like bring me in as like a social media consultant. And it's like, you have to explain so many of these basic things. Cause like the things that you learned over the past two years through trial and error, like these large businesses have no idea how to do. And it's like, they have to hire people who are younger because of the one, they're the ones who are making the content. They're the ones who are in tune with how to make good engaging content, especially like, I feel like the old style of content really does not work well on TikTok. Like it could still work on like YouTube or like Instagram, but those, I mean, YouTube will be around forever, but Instagram is kind of dying out. Like they're

1:05:07 trying to move to reels. Reels sucks. I don't know who watches reels. Like, um, but what you were saying about like having that group of friends who are all content creators, like that's wild to me because I never thought I would do social media. Honestly, it was something that I kind of just stayed away from my entire life. Um, and so I guess it's crazy to see like how many young people are so

1:05:37 have so much expertise already. And it's like, it's such a niche, not niche, uh, new industry that people, a lot of the old methods and technology or methods and strategies to go viral don't necessarily work on TikTok. Like I saw this. So like my friend who has a startup, he like hired this company to make them like a really fancy ad spent like mid five figures and it was complete garbage. Like it looks very, it looks like an ad, right? It's not genuine. Like people see that. And like, when you see sponsored posts by these large corporations, they have like likes in the hundreds and then there's like five comments and one of them, and it's just like, it's very pathetic almost in a way. It's like, you can't do something that like probably some teenagers is going to blow this ad out of the water and you can pay them like much less to do it. Exactly. It's the influence, the potential influence that is in the hands of youth right now is insane. And I feel like no one's

1:06:39 talking about it. Like how many people, uh, young people can reach, you know? Um, it is really insane. Cause I think like, we both can relate that we just never saw ourselves in social media and like overnight people are like becoming the authority on certain topics. Like you're, I would say, an authority on, you know, computer science careers and things like that. Um, you know, I became an authority, so to speak on manifestation. Like, did I ever intend to, I mean, I had no idea. Um, and so that's insane. Like it's very, um, fast paced too. You know, because I feel like most people who start their own businesses or do become authorities on something, it happens over the span of like, let's say 10 years, you know, most people don't run their own business successfully till they're in their like thirties, forties. Um, but now you're seeing so many young people with like heaps of money because something blew up overnight and they're able to market it much better. Like you said,

1:07:38 than any corporation. Um, so it is insane. It is. Yeah. And I think it's only going to like continue to grow. Um, I, I challenge the statistics. I think that we're still like an anomaly. So you mentioned that like a million followers is nothing. And I totally agree with that statement. Like it's like people, there's like hundreds of thousands of creators. I just like, I look at people's profiles and like the people I've never seen just have like millions and millions of followers. And like, I've never seen them a single time on TikTok. Um, so there's like billions of people watching TikTok.

1:08:12 Uh, and there's, you know, millions of creators with just a huge following that it's, it's so hard to see all the content because there's so much. Um, but I still think that like, if you were to go into the percentages, I bet like 95% of people who create content are probably like sub 10,000 followers would be my guess. Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, we're definitely outsiders or, you know, an anomaly, but I do think it's becoming more common now. And well, also I would say like having 10,000 followers is still a lot of influence, you know, the fact that so many people have that because of TikTok now is pretty insane. Like not a lot of people had that on Instagram or YouTube as much. Um, so it is a really interesting, like, I'm excited to see what that turns into down the line and how that influences things like politics or, you know, God knows what, but yeah.

1:09:04 Yeah. Yeah. I think that young people are definitely, like you said, going to have a much greater voice going forward, uh, because the majority of content creators are young. Like I would say, again, going back to that distribution, probably like 80, 20, like 80% are probably in their twenties. And then the rest are like old people like me, but we're very rare. And yeah, I mean, it's like, as far as politics goes so far, it's always favored old people because they vote more. Um, but more recently I've been seeing a lot of positive TikToks from younger people telling people like, Hey, like, you know, shut up. If you were complaining about things and you're not voting, like you're part of the problem. You are the problem. You need to go vote. And I've seen many TikToks from really, really large, um, younger content creators, basically telling people to vote, not like any, any specific way. Right. But just telling them to do the act of voting,

1:09:51 which people have not done historically. Yeah. And the white house inviting a bunch of TikTokers over to do TikToks at the white house. Like it's, it's a thing now. It's a thing. The youth are gaining influence in politics, I think through social media. And I feel like over time, that's going to have like a larger impact. I think statistically speaking, like young people still vote less than older people regardless, but, um, that might change over time. And I think that's going to be really interesting. Yeah. And then like young people have always dictated the culture, but then you, as you mentioned before, now the speed at which it transitions or changes is so quick. Like a year ago I had literally zero social media presence. Um, but then like the TikTok algorithm. And as far as like the competitors for reels and like YouTube shorts, I don't think they're anywhere near TikTok. Like the algorithm on those platforms is, it's just like leagues and leagues behind. It's not even close.

1:10:54 And there's just like the UI it's like, it's like an afterthought, right? Cause like these platforms were not built for short form media. Like YouTube was long form and like search based, like Google, right there, the whole thing is search that you want to make long searchable content. And then for Instagram is more almost like celebrity worship or like this kind of more put together persona. Like the, it's interesting to see the content, what does well on each of the platforms. Cause like none, most of the content that does well on TikTok for me, like does not do well on reels. Cause I think the audience is a lot older. So like, they don't care about, um, computer science. Cause they already have a career in XYZ. Like they're past that point of choosing. They're interested in like, well, how do I get a promotion? How do I get a raise? How here's, what's something that like actually is applicable to me. Um, and then YouTube is just like, I think longer form is still king.

1:11:45 Like, I don't think it'll ever really transition to a short form platform. Exactly. Yeah. And I think that's what makes YouTube unique. Um, and it'll always when I think, yeah, it is interesting to see like what does, or I mean, TikTok specifically, just the algorithm is insane. What it's able to accomplish. I completely agree. Yeah. It's, and then like reels, you have to kind of like pick and choose specifically what you know will do well on reels. Cause it's not the same things I've noticed on reels. The videos that do really well for me on reels are things that were popping off on TikTok a year ago. Old trends. Well, yeah. Yeah. But I don't know. Yeah. I think it's like the, the speed of culture. So before it was always kind of a meme, how like 4chan was like the incubator of memes. And then eventually when it got old and stale, it moved to Reddit. And then once that got old and stale, it moved kind of to other platforms

1:12:41 like Instagram and then Facebook and Twitter or whatever. Uh, but nowadays it's like something can be around for like a week or two or a month and then it's old by the next month. Um, but it's exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to ask you, um, what made you decide to post your first TikTok? Cause you were saying like, you just had like zero social media like following or anything like that a year ago. So what was it that made you do it? So, so hilarious is this, this ties into the entire conversation we've been having. Um, and it was due to competition. So my wife made a TikTok and she was bragging to me and being like, Oh my God, check out my followers. She had a couple of thousand. And one day I just decided like, okay, you know what? I'm going to create my own account and I'm going to pass you like before I ended the year. So this was last December. Um, and then one of my first couple of videos took off, I think all first, the first three, they all got over a million views.

1:13:41 One of them hit like 10 million views. Um, and I hit like, I don't know, a hundred K within the first like week and then like 300 K within like the first month. And I got like a bunch of interviews from like wall street journal, business insider. Um, I forget what other ones, but there's like all this attention all at once. But like ever since then it was essentially like a rocket. And then it's kind of just been like slowly down since there. Like it's very, very slow since then. So it's like basically all the growth happened in like those first three months. And then I just kept on continuing to post because like I, outside of this, like basically just look after my family. And I think a lot of people are surprised whenever they see Annie's blogs. Um, and then of course I shouted out her account and she was extremely happy about that. She's always been super into social media, like to the point of annoyance

1:14:33 for me. Cause like she'd be like the Instagram person of like trying to take a picture of our food. And I'm like, ah, I just want to eat this food. Like I don't, I don't care about this. I love her videos by the way. Oh yeah. I'm a huge fan. Yeah. I love her. Yeah. I think her, um, videos have done really well, uh, compared to what she was doing before and like her food, her food videos have taken off and like her vlog videos do okay. Um, I'm trying to push her towards more of the food content, but that also takes like a really long time to make. Cause like my video will take literally a minute or less, but her video will take like an entire day and we have other stuff to do. Right. Well, that's so interesting that it was a competition that fueled your passion or your, the start of your TikTok. Yeah. It all goes back to instinct, like I said. Um, but that's so crazy.

1:15:26 Yeah. And these videos are really good. I love her. Um, but it's, I think it's nice in terms of our content that it is very easy and, um, we can turn, you know, have quick turnaround. Um, because yeah, some people have to spend like hours on their videos and that's, that's tough. Um, but yeah, we're lucky. Yeah. I think it's, it also depends on the creator. Cause like, there are certain accounts that like every single video is pretty much destined to go viral. Like a lot of the special effects ones that I see, um, very engaging. I don't know if this guy's posted in a while, but he would do like anime edits. And because I think anime that like niche is extreme, anything that piggybacks off an existing cultural phenomenon is kind of destined to do well. So all the people who talk about like movies or TV, um, a lot of anime accounts, whether they're doing like parodies or comedy or simply just like commentary, I think that it's because you already have that

1:16:26 audience and people are interested in this subject. Um, similar to like food in a sense, though. I think, I feel like the food market is kind of oversaturated because it's like something, it's a very common hobby. Um, not to say that you like can't do well, but I feel like the top food people, they all have like a twist. So like the old grandma, I, I don't know her name, but, um, I think she got nominated for like one of the best creators or something recently. Okay. Ninja. That's right. She's popular because her like grandson does her edits. Like she does the cooking, but her grandson does all the comments and the edits. And that's why it like pops off because it's a young person who knows what other young people will like. Um, exactly. And Emily Mariko was taking off too. Yeah. She, she moved really fast. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I feel like the whole growth phase, I'm not sure if this is a real thing or not. I feel like it happens the most within the first year.

1:17:23 Um, I don't know if you've seen that as well. Yes, for sure. Like the first year was, it was insane. Like how fast, um, things were moving. And then obviously you have that plateau and no one talks about this, but it's hard to deal with that. Like the, the dopamine rush that you have when things are doing really well and your content's booming and then you hit that plateau and it's like, it's not easy. It's really difficult. And obviously I feel like the algorithm is kind of taking like a gambling approach on it. Um, they know what it's doing to your psychology. They know it's going to force you to make more content to get that dopamine again. But like, I've really struggled with that because I have ADHD as well. So for me, I need that dopamine and I would like obsessed with making content until I would have that dopamine hit one more time, you know? Um, but I really feel like I became addicted to it. Like, I feel like a lot of people probably relate, but it's like, it really is

1:18:21 like a drug. It is because the validation you feel from it. And that's something I had to work on too. Cause like, I'm a spiritual creator. I don't want, um, my, the thing that's fueling me to ever be ego or likes or comments or views or whatever. I don't want validation from that. I want validation from like actually helping people, but the algorithm makes it so hard because it's like all you want. It's all you can think about. I don't know about you, but it like consumed my whole life. It was my every waking thought. I think that's a super common story. And especially in the way they present the analytics. Cause like they show you the week over week and it's down. You'd like, see all these red arrows pointing down. You see all these numbers going down. And when it's a good week, you see all these numbers going up. It shows you all your top performing videos. It shows how well they performed over the past week. It shows your follower growth week over week. Like,

1:19:09 Hey, are you doing better than like last month or this other random time period? Um, but pro tip and some creators have already figured this out, but if you create new accounts, it kind of resets that like lottery aspect of it. So my theory is essentially that within your first dozen or so videos, it'll kind of artificially pump out to give you try to try to get you hooked on that dopamine. Um, and pump out one of these videos and make it a super viral video. So basically like if you create a new account and one of your first 12 videos don't blow up to like a million, then you can just kind of like, you know, roll the dice again, pull the lever again. And that's why I think some people have like four or five accounts and all of them are like super big. Um, but like the plateau you talking about, I'd be really interested to see the analytics of growth for creators. Cause like my hypothesis is that a lot of that growth actually happens within the first year.

1:20:05 And then everyone plateaus. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I'm interested in seeing like a much bigger creators, like, um, Anna Sitar, I think is her name or like any of the creators that have like 10 million, um, followers. Like, yeah. Like how are they continuously growing? Because I mean, I imagine they have to be because they couldn't have gained 10 million in a year. So I'm curious what it is or what they do that maintains that level of growth for them. Some people have a formula. So like, if you look at someone like Joe Bartolosi, right. And he, he always does the reacts like that. That is his thing. Like when you see this, like, you know, green screen video behind him with him with his signature beating, like his community is huge. His engagement rate is really, really high. It's like insanely high. And I think he's also still in college as well. Like I'm surprised he hasn't just kind of

1:21:00 done content creation full time at this point. Cause like clearly he could. Um, but like, I think that some people have that formula kind of in it, not just the formula, but like a really, really solid community. Cause like there's entire TikTok trends centered around him, like him being in the hills or like people doing parodies of like people make content for him at a certain point, right? Like they're doing fan drawings. They're doing like skits. They're, they're, they're mimicking. Um, and I think that virality, if you're able to turn it into a community so that he also has like the Twitch stream and YouTube and like all these other platforms where he's also really big on the other ones. Um, and maybe I can get him on this podcast and talk about it later. But essentially, it's like, I think that a lot of people have these viral moments. Like, I don't know if you remember the, like one guy who did the dancing in front of the mirror and literally everyone did that trend of

1:21:53 like, I think I know what you're talking about. Like Jamie Bish guy. He, he was like the official, yeah, official TikTok accounts like commented on his stuff. Every single creator, big creator was doing the like transition of the mirror thing. Um, I think most cases are more similar to that. And I feel like there are like almost seasons of virality. So like my season essentially ended after like three months. And then since then it's been like very flat, but like some people like, you know, they're always in season. Um, and so their videos always blow up. And so like, I think Joe has been doing this for longer than you, even he's been doing for like three or four years at this point, like three videos every single day, um, with that exact format. And like, I, I think that the format is really engaging because people like the exaggeration. They like the, like you mentioned, like you mentioned before the theatrics of it. Um, because at the end of the day,

1:22:55 it's still an entertainment app. Like people come on here to be entertained in some way. And like, if they happen to learn something useful or, um, better themselves, that's like a cherry on top, but the core of it is still like, it has to be entertaining. True. I forget that sometimes, but like at the end of the day, it has to be entertaining for people to watch and follow. Yeah. Well, that's interesting, but I think, um, yeah, it's what I tend to see happen is like, most people will have that like season of virality. And then unless you come up with another thing that takes off, you're just going to plateau. And so that's kind of the problem. I think a lot of creators run into, um, and I think I, I should try the new account thing. I do have a second account that has like almost 800 K where I do like Reiki videos and that really took off in the beginning. And I kind of almost wish I took more advantage of it because I was like, every video

1:23:49 I made got over a million views on that account. Um, so it's, I think there is some truth to the, like, if you make a new account and one of the first like few videos goes viral, like you're pretty much good to go. But yeah, I don't know. Like it's, it's, it's, it's scary too, when so much of your identity, you know, is attached to your social media. Um, I don't know if you deal with this at all, but like, I sometimes that, you know, I struggle to distinguish between who's Sarah and who's hot high priestess, or is it the same person? And like, how do people like view me?

1:24:23 Do they view me as Sarah or hot high priestess? And that can become a problem very quickly, because if your social media is tied to your identity, then so much of your self-worth is going to be dependent on how well your videos do and things like that. Um, so that's something, obviously I think every creator in some sense struggles with, um, that's something I had to struggle with a little bit, but yeah, I don't know. Do you feel like you have two separate identities or are they kind of merging together?

1:24:54 I think mine has always kind of just been the same. Like I've always not really had much of a filter. And I think that's actually one of the reasons that people like my content is that like, I mostly just say what I'm thinking and it might not always be like the most politically correct or like the popular view, but I think a lot of people do think it in a sense. So even if I say something that's not popular, I think I take a lot of my value as a person more towards fatherhood at this point. Um, so like social media is interesting and I think I'll probably continue until I don't know, I get bored one day, but I have struggled less with that. I think the thing I struggled with more is like the general sense of negativity. It's like really easy. Like in the beginning, I would, I didn't make any critical comment or content of like other creators or topics or whatever.

1:25:47 Um, and at a certain point, I kind of realized that like my mindset was just more trending towards the like criticism. Cause like my, my natural inclination is to like, think about why someone is wrong or why this idea doesn't work or how something could be improved. I think a lot of engineers think this way. It's like, it's easier to poke holes in an idea than to like propose a solution that would work. Um, just from like the nature of, I think, a logically minded people maybe. But in a sense that like at a certain point I was thinking like, man, and also there's the whole like tape blowing up thing where it's like, oh, you can just be controversial. And I think it's like, there are other creators who copied that. Um, and it clearly works right. This funnel works that people want to really blow up and they can say continually controversial things. And like, I think a lot of people don't know what a sales funnel is.

1:26:40 Um, but, uh, maybe I'll go over real quick, but sales funnel, basically at the top of the funnel, you try to get views and then you provide a value add. And basically at each step you provide more and more value and it gets more and more expensive. And the entire goal is to get your customer at the bottom of the funnel to buy the most expensive thing. Um, so like in the Tate funnel, the bottom is essentially private coaching by him because his class, you get taught by a bunch of like randos. You don't even actually work with them. But at the very bottom of like the exclusive club, there's like a $35,000 per month thing where you actually get to talk with him. And that's what he's trying to push everyone towards. And it's like, because of how the algorithm works and because of his like, honestly, brilliantly executed affiliate marketing scheme, which other people have now done essentially to be like, Hey, here are all these clips, post them. I'll give you a cut of

1:27:32 people who sign up. Like that's not a new thing. People have been doing this for forever on YouTube and et cetera, but they just haven't had the benefit of an algorithm that promotes controversial content or promotes a lot of this like clickbaity type stuff. Um, as effectively like news sites, I've already realized, okay, if we, we want to keep people on continuing to watching, we want to make them feel like fear or anger. And like Facebook has gotten a ton of criticism for this. Um, but that's, that's how you kind of appeal to humans in general, like through their emotion, like not through their logic, regardless of how logically minded someone might be.

1:28:09 Um, and so I forgot where I was going with this. What was, what was I even talking about? Um, the controversy on social media, maybe I forget, but to your point, um, no, I think that's like, so true is like controversy just tends to do well on social media. And I think maybe part of the, well, a lot of these TikTokers I noticed who have like 10 million followers and things like that, they started as controversial figures, you know, or, you know, whoever is popular right now. Like, yeah, exactly. So to some extent they started as controversial figures, whether or not they're controversial now, I don't know, but that was really what made them successful. And I think by nature, what I do, like tarot, especially is controversial. Um, manifestation is controversial subject. Um, so by nature, what I'm revolving my content around is controversial, but then if you can tap into even more controversy videos do really well, you know? Um, and so I think that's another

1:29:16 thing that a lot of creators have to overcome is not just hate comments, but disagreement. Like I had to start viewing hate and disagreement as like a good thing because that fuels the algorithm, you know? Like, and it's hard to get that through your head. Like you're very tempted in the beginning to like delete the videos that get a lot of hate. Like when I first started, all my videos were flooded with like Christian Jesus people being like, Oh my God, she's the devil. I'm like, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, and I was really tempted to delete their comments, delete the videos. Um, because it's hard in the beginning. Like you're not yet numb to that. I think you eventually become numb, but in the beginning you're not. And you're very affected by these things personally, take it very personal. So over time you start to realize if you don't, I think this is the difference between successful creators and not successful creators. You have to unfortunately

1:30:11 distance yourself from your content and from the results of your content and the audience that it's reaching to a very, you know, small degree, because if you don't and you take everything so personally, like you'll never succeed. Um, and so I think one of this, the things that like I realized was if I could begin to view controversy arguments in the comments, things like that as like energy that would like almost lift me up, then like I could succeed. And that's what I did. And I think now things aren't so controversial because obviously my audience is people who like love and understand manifestation and tarot. But in the beginning, I think that's what like caused the uptick.

1:30:52 Yeah, that's really an interesting theory. Um, I saw a YouTube video that was kind of analyzing controversial creators and basically when creators get caught up in a controversy, that's the most popular that they've ever been, or it creates a huge spike in their popularity. Um, because the controversy, like you said, it gets more views and that engagement, whether positive or negative, negative fuels the algorithm reaching you to new heights, a new audience. And it just makes you like afterwards controversy usually fades. I think the only people who truly, you know, get canceled are the ones who, like you said, can't take it anymore. Like they succumb to all the hate comments and then they stop creating content. I think a really famous example is, uh, Jenna Marbles.

1:31:34 I don't know. Yeah, but like she was very unproblematic, unproblematic, right? She made really wholesome content for the most part, but then like culturally she had some missteps which were acceptable at the time, but then later on extremely not acceptable. Uh, and then she's just like, yeah, I'm going to stop. And like, realistically, she could have kept going and everyone would still watch her stuff. Um, but like, you know, she was like, okay, you know what? I, I can't, I can't deal with this. I can't handle it. I'm stepping out. And I think she like, you know, that was her persona on the internet. There was, that wasn't a character. That was Jenna Marbles. That's who she is.

1:32:07 She just, you know, put herself out there and people were kind of taking a dump on her. Um, um, but, um, I, I also remember the train of thought of like how we even came down this whole like controversy thing. Um, I think there are a couple of different ways that people deal with it. And I, I think that yours is, is one common one that I've seen other kind of bigger creators talk about as well. Like the, you'll lean something, the Asian girl who does some stereotypes, the comedy type stuff. And then she got a ton of pay for that. And she's like, oh yeah, I started distancing myself and that's what worked. Um, and then Gary V who had a pretty insightful method. He was saying like, oh, you know, a lot of these hate comments come from a place of like that person is hurting and he tries to like respond to it with positivity, which I honestly don't know how he does. Cause like, I think it takes a lot to respond to like hate with love,

1:32:59 right? The whole MLK approach. Um, and then my approach hasn't really been either of those. It's been more of like, I've never cared too much about other opinions in general ever. So it's, when I see people's hate comments, it doesn't really affect me that much either way. Um, but I say that though, I think it still does affect me in a sense where like I'll respond in a multifaceted way. Cause like, we both know that if you respond like kind of hating on a comment or like hating on a video or hating on something like that does tend to do better. And yeah, I also have to like pull back, try to pull back from that. Cause I, at a certain point I was thinking like, oh man, I could just make my entire account about like debunking or like hating. Cause like, like there's so many big accounts that are like that are essentially just purely stitches or like duets of just being like, this person sucks because of X, Y, Z. And regardless of their

1:33:55 packaging or messaging, like some is more harsh than others, but they're all effectively the same thing. It's all like online drama, essentially. It's like a battle of internet wits. I don't really know. Um, and I, for a second, I was almost thinking like, should I just do this? But then, um, kind of similar to you, I was thinking like, is this really beneficial in a sense? Like regardless of how you package it, if you look into those comment sections, regardless of how nice or articulate the creator is being, it's so toxic. It's just like everyone out there is just piling on whoever they stitch for duet. And it's like, I don't believe it's truly about positivity because if it was like, if you see the type of people watching this content, they see the type of comments they're making, like, you know what's going to happen to whoever made that original video.

1:34:38 Like they're going to private their account. They're going to like take down the video. It's, it's like, I don't know. I, yeah, it's, it's hard to say like, if that's a net positive or not. Um, it's, you know, more complex issue than we can probably talk about in the next 15 minutes, but I do think that overall it's probably a net negative. Like it's entertainment, but the not an educate, just like entertainment in the sense of like, people love to see the downfall almost of someone else or love to see like the tear down.

1:35:15 Yeah. And I mean, just like on a spiritual level, I feel like, and I noticed this a lot, like in people who their entire success is based around drama or tearing someone down. Like initially, they're going to get abused for that. That's for sure. But I like, I feel like that's like bad karma. Like it just isn't going to end well. And then I always see it. I like watch, you know, a video on my FYP and it'll be like someone bashing someone else in the spiritual community. And I'm like, like, even if they have a valid point, I'm like, you're one, only giving more attention to that person to like, it's just, it's bad. It's bad karma. And I noticed that a lot of the times, like they'll have that one video do really well. And then all their other videos tank.

1:36:01 And so, I mean, I personally like to stay out of like drama and things like that with other creators, but I think having controversy and just like ideas and thoughts is like valid, you know, like to make people think a different way or offer a new perspective. Like, I think that's how Andrew Tate obviously became popular, like we were saying. But at the end of the day, like you were saying earlier, it all stems on emotion. So if you're able to get that passion out of someone to like argue and be like, you're wrong, you're right, whatever, that's what makes a video really successful. When people are like arguing in the comments, it's kind of like, I almost feel like sports, you know, when people really want to like defend their team, it's the same concept. But yeah, controversy on social media, it's, it's a whole thing. And like, like you were saying, like responding to comments, like, you know, what's going to happen to that person's account. And I think sometimes people don't

1:37:00 realize the impact. Like, I mean, I think we're pretty numb to an extent to hate and to all of these things. But it still affects us sometimes, like, it can really eff you up. And I think if you're not mentally there fully, it can, you know, have some really bad consequences. If someone's like making a hate video about you or trying to cancel you or whatever it is, it can completely fuck a person's life up like forever. And I think that's just a very scary territory to enter. Because I think we've both had people, you know, make hate videos or say we were bullshit or whatever. And that's one video to someone, but that could like completely destroy someone's week. You know, yeah, it's not, it's not easy.

1:37:47 Yeah. And I think that like, on that same vein, a lot of people are doing this for their livelihood, like it's attached to their business, it's attached to their income, like it is their career. So not only does it like the mental health aspect, but it's also tied to the financial aspect, like their whole life, their identity. Yeah, it's like everything. Like, and that's why I'm trying to kind of separate the hot high priestess from Sarah thing, because I don't want that to be everything for me. You know, I'm very proud of my work. I love what I do. And it is who I am. But it's scary when everything, you know, your whole identity, who you are is attached to the, the thoughts, emotions, the comments of other people. Because that's the nature of social media, like your entire identity thrives on other people's validation. So that's a very scary territory to be in.

1:38:47 I think a lot of people just don't get it. You don't get it until you're a creator yourself. Yeah, I definitely don't think we were meant, like biologically, we don't have the hardware really to adapt to the situation. Like humans were not meant to interact with millions of people at the same time. And like, what's really hilarious is that I think the whole mental health aspect is more applicable to basically every creator than you would think. So like I made a random video saying Andrew Tate was broke. And his brother messaged me on Instagram.

1:39:18 I saw your video about that. And I was thinking... Did you respond? No, I didn't respond because I don't respond to Instagram DMs. But I was, my mind was blown because I was thinking like, this dude that has the emotional maturity of like, a child, but he's one of the most famous people on the planet. And I was just thinking like, this is the person, this person who clearly has like mental issues or like, is not emotionally intelligent. And so many people look up to them, right? And it's, I've also like, had conversations with other creators that are just not quite all there in the head. In terms of like, extreme narcissistic personality, or

1:40:03 almost close to psychopathy. Like they clearly shouldn't even be online. Like they're at the point where like their mental health is so in the gutter or near it that it's like, why are you even making this content? Like, why are you doing this to yourself? And I guess like they might, like you said, they might be addicted to the dopamine and chasing the, the dragon or whatever. But it's just like, I don't know, it's crazy. It's probably not healthy. Like I, I could see,

1:40:30 you see a glimpse of how celebrities turn out the way that they are. Because that's like, what we're doing dialed up to 100. If we're at like a 10, they're at like a 99, 98. Um, and it's like, I think that's just a whole nother level. Because then there's like details coming to light about like, not just all the like, weird sexual stuff that goes on in Hollywood, but also all of like the control, and how they like manage your family, and they threaten your family. And it's like, we see actors, and we think that they're the ones who have the wealth and the power and the control. But no, like, if you see how the actors interact with producers and directors, and then how those people interact with like the showrunners, and how the showrunners, like there's like this entire hierarchy that's kind of like more shadowy that people don't understand unless you're in the industry, and which I certainly didn't know about until I worked at Netflix.

1:41:22 Yeah, it's insane. It, the whole thing, I don't think humans were ever designed for this. And especially when it comes to like the dopamine conversation. I think it's so toxic. I think it's so it's it becomes an addiction. Not for everyone, I think, but a lot of people I feel are susceptible to it, especially people who grew up on social media, and know the feeling that when you have your own personal Instagram account, you know, when it gets 100 likes on Instagram, you know, a post like the validation you feel from that now times 100 times 1000, it can enter really toxic territory. And I think like, like I was saying earlier, especially if you're not fully there, like you have ADHD, it can destroy you, it really can. So you have to be careful. Also, Andrew Tate's brother.

1:42:14 So that's such an L for him. I'm sorry. I like I read that. And I cannot believe, like the message I was reading, because I was thinking, like, did that intern write this or something? Like, it has a blue checkmark, like, let me check this account. And it's like, oh, yeah, 2 million followers. I'm like, dude, like, what do you think I'm gonna do with this message? Like, you think I'm just gonna, I'm gonna feel bad? Like, or? Yeah, I don't know. I like, it's, I mean, but I think it like brings to light like a broader message, which is that people with like, 1% of the talent that you have, or the capacity that you have are running the world or running social media or running much more successful businesses than you. So you know, for anyone watching the podcast, like, if Andrew Tate's brother could be successful, what's stopping you? Like, there's literally nothing. Exactly. That's a great message to end on.

1:43:06 There's a very popular Steve Jobs clip where he says essentially the same thing, like the entire world, all the rules, society as you know it, was made by people no smarter than you are. So really, you have the power to go out and change it. Exactly. Period. So thank you, Sarah, for joining us. And thank you to everyone listening to the Frankly Speaking podcast. Sarah, would you like to end with anything? Well, thank you for having me. My socials are all @hothighpriestess, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. You can find me on there. I also have a workshop, which you could grab. The link is in any of my bios. And that's it. Thank you so much.