E4: Our Marriage Story

Transcript

Machine-generated (Whisper). Download: VTT · SRT

0:00 Hello, and welcome to the Frankly Speaking podcast. Today, I am joined by my lovely wife, Annie. Hello. And we will cover the rest of our marriage journey, hopefully. We'll see how much of it we get through, but last time we had just been kicked out, almost evicted from our last condo together, and we have basically each decided to get our own apartments because we thought, "Oh, are we just dating each other out of convenience? Maybe it's like too early to move in together." Because we had only known each other for a couple of months at that point.

0:33 Like one month at that time? One or two, I don't remember. Yeah, and then I kind of found like two other girls on Facebook Marketplace and moved into, it was a two-bedroom apartment with two baths, and one of the girls also lived in the living room, and then we kind of just like split up the payments that way. And I was there for about three months until we decided, like, okay, let's actually move together. Yeah, and then the place I moved into was also a two-bedroom, two-bath, but I really didn't like my roommate that much. Let's call him Brad.

1:05 Brad was totally normal whenever I would talk to him, and then he would like complain to Annie behind my back. And then he would like complain to Annie behind my back, like he was so passive-aggressive. He never actually like told me he had any problems with me, but then he would like complain to Annie all the time. Yeah, so I don't know if Frank is oblivious or something, but he would like go and eat Brad's food. He would literally offer me his food. He'd be like, "Hey, do you want to eat this thing?" I'd be like, "Yeah, okay." So one time I just like went to visit Frank, and then Brad was like, "Hey, can you tell Frank to stop eating my bread?" Yeah, I don't remember this. And like I guess he never said anything to me, like in any form.

2:06 He would always just complain to Annie, and then I would like go do whatever thing he said, but that was extremely annoying. Like I would have preferred if he just told me to my face rather than complain to my girlfriend. But anyways, yeah, I was getting sick of living with Brad, and Annie pretty much stayed over every night anyways. So it's not like she was getting the value out of her own apartment. When did we, like why did we decide to live together? He was subletting to me, and we had the option to basically renew the lease, and I didn't want to room with him.

2:39 But I really liked where we were staying, so I basically found a place that was one floor below. And I thought, "Okay, this is like a pretty good deal. It was cheaper than like both of what we were paying at the time." So here's the reason why I didn't want to move out of my existing place with other two girls. Because I signed a yearly lease, and they did like extensive background checks on me. And should I tell the story? It's super long. I don't know, I can't... Yeah, up to you. So basically, one girl was staying in the master bedroom, and she's got the master bath, and she also has a parking lot.

3:19 So she was paying $1,600. I was staying in the second bedroom and sharing a bathroom with a girl in the living room, and I was paying $1,500, which is really reasonable to me. I think that was a good deal because I was paying $1,600 at your first condo, and that was just a living room. And I think the part that sucks is the girl in the living room is sharing a bathroom with me, and she's also in the living room, and she's also paying $1,300. So she's not getting a great deal out of this in comparison.

3:55 And so basically, when I tried to leave, the girl in the living room took this as an opportunity to renegotiate the split, and was like, if I wanted to leave, I would have to basically rent out my room for like $1,600 or $1,700 so that she could have a break. And I thought that was really unfair because it's obviously harder for me to rent out or like find someone to sublet my room for $200 extra from what I was paying. So I basically didn't want to agree, and they won't let me out of the lease. So I was just like, so stressed out because I was still in kind of relatively new country, new city, trying to figure out life.

4:38 And I don't know, I just like didn't want to break the law or anything because I was in this contract. And to him, it was just so simple. He was just like, "What are you even worried about?" And then there was this one day where I was just so stressed. It was raining, and I went to pick him up from work. And then to add a little bit more color to this, the girl who was in the suite with the en suite bathroom, she was getting a really good deal. So she loved that living room bedroom because she was paying really cheap for a one-bedroom private bath compared to Annie.

5:12 And then the other thing that the living room girl probably thought about is since Annie basically wasn't there most of the time anyway, like she was technically almost getting that bathroom to herself. And like who knew what would happen with the next girl. And so like when Annie went to like visit me at work that one day, she was wearing her coat and just like completely drenched. And I just like felt so depressed. It was like one of those Korean drama scenes. Yeah, I still remember it pretty vividly today.

5:42 But yeah, it was in my mind, I was thinking like, who cares? Like they're going to have to deal with it because like if you leave and you're not paying like they're going to have to find anyone someone anyways to just make rents or be kicked out. And so I felt like it was kind of an empty threat. Um, I didn't really understand where a lot of the stress was coming from, I guess, Annie. Yeah. Well, I worried about my deposit because like, you know, we talked about how expensive the deposits were in San Francisco.

6:08 And my deposit was one and a half times rent. So it's like almost what, like $2,000 or something. And I worried about getting that back. Right. So then basically I was telling Annie, like, oh, you just get the next person to like pay the deposit up front, which Annie eventually did find someone. Yeah. And it all kind of worked out, except that like rents got renegotiated between the three of them. I honestly don't know. I think basically the first girl, the girl in the master bedroom gave up her parking spot.

6:38 So then the girl in the living room was able to rent out that parking spot for like $200 and to subsidize her rent. Um, but yeah, I kind of pulled a fast one on them. I basically like found someone for that room without even telling the girls or like getting their approval. And I got that girl to like basically sign a contract with me, transfer me the deposit. So then I really had nothing to worry about. Like I already got my money. I didn't care if they didn't figure it out. But I think this is like super common in San Francisco.

7:13 Like everyone tries to screw each other over just for money. Like things are so expensive. You see this type of, you know, like disagreement or like argument all the time. It's specifically over rent too. Like even with my roommate situation with Brad, his room was like slightly bigger, but we were paying the same amount of money. We're paying the same amount of money, which he kind of like conveniently left out before I moved in, which also made me pretty annoyed and like not want to room with him. And so, I mean, even after I moved out and moved in with Annie, I still like would get messages from all the time, him all the time asking to like hang out and stuff.

7:51 And I would just kind of ignore him because like, okay, why are you trying to be friends with me? You clearly are annoyed with me in many ways, but maybe his like communication style is just like passive aggressive and not confrontational. I don't really know. While you were living with Brad, I feel like that's when we got more serious with our relationship. Yeah, because kind of going back into like how the progression of our relationship, I actually said I love you first, because we did we decided to play this like 32 questions one night.

8:23 And I think one of the last questions in the list was like, if you had died right now, what's one thing that you will regret? And I was like, oh, I will regret not saying I love you too, Frank. And then he just like made fun of me for saying that, like, and then he was like, I guess I love you too or something.

8:49 And then so I think that happened, like, you know, a month into moving there. So at that point, it was like dating each other to get married. Eventually, we've been dating for like four or five months at that point. Like three months at that time. Yeah. So we moved in together super early. Well, I guess for the second time, because we were originally living together. We split up and now we're moving into this new place again, which I was pretty excited about because now we would have our own private place.

9:16 We wouldn't have to worry about roommates. Yeah, we could. We actually picked up a bunch of like free furniture. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So, so Frank has like no furniture. Like he refuses to get a couch or a dining room table or anything like his bed always just sat on the floor. Yep. And so we moving to this new place. It's just a gigantic living room with a bean bag that he bought just like in the middle. And he refuses to get any other furniture besides like a basketball, like one of those arcade basketball hoops, which took up like a quarter of the living room.

9:54 And then we would go dumpster diving, which is one of Frank's favorite activities. Yep. But it's not really dumpster diving. Like because we lived in this like large apartment complex, there's just like one garage with a bunch of like abandoned like furniture that weren't that bad. And he would just go and casually like browse and then he will also look on Craigslist for like random furniture that people were getting rid of. And there's one time he made us walk like several blocks down this very sketchy area in San Francisco.

10:33 And there was this very large table like the couple was like moving back to Europe and he wanted us to carry it back like by hand. Yeah, which I was totally fine with. Annie did not have the strength. No, it's also very embarrassing. And so Annie actually ended up calling it Uber and we put the dining table in the Uber and we also got like a bunch of clothes hangers. I think we still have to this day. Yeah, we also got a bunch of chairs like folding chairs. Oh, yeah, the chairs were nice. Yeah. And that table stayed with us for three moves.

11:08 Like we took it to Chicago with us. We took it back to San Jose with us. Yep. And we finally got rid of it before we moved back to Canada. Yeah. I mean, I still wanted to keep it, honestly, but Annie kind of vetoed it. And we actually got rid of a lot of our like free furniture that I liked. But yeah, I mean, we're in this new place now. We have some amounts of furniture. I don't think we have a couch at that point. Right. No, we bought that much later to get a couch. We have a photo. Maybe I'll put it up like just sitting on his beanbag.

11:43 Yeah. So I mean, our relationship is pretty steady at this point. I don't remember at what point we actually go on a vacation to Japan. Is that in April. So we had already lived together for like four months in this new condo together by April. I don't really remember. I'm sure we fought a lot, but I don't really remember. Well, I have a perfect example of you fighting a lot or us fighting a lot. So my friend, the same friend that played ping pong with us. Oh, yeah. So she, her fiance at the time was, you know, working in private equity in San Francisco.

12:24 And she would come to visit him from out of town all the time. So when she was in town, I asked Frank to come visit her with me. And so it was a night and Frank and I were walking towards her place. And we somehow got into an argument basically about how I don't feel comfortable bring him to places with me because he always has this like really mean face on doesn't smile doesn't say hi. So it's really hard for me to like bring him out because I feel so much pressure because I feel like he's not going to do a good job like entertaining my friend.

13:06 And then so he got upset at me and just literally left, left me in the middle of the street and was like, I'm not going to deal with this. I'm going to go home. Let me preface this with every time her friends meet me, they love me. So it's completely in Annie's head. Like I do great with people. I don't like people. I don't like people, but people like me. I want to, I want to make that point very explicitly clear. So I show up to my friend's place. Like I think I brought some food or something and I like show up to her place just like crying.

13:41 And she opens the door and she's like, Oh my God, what happened? So, needless to say, she does not have a very good first impression of Frank. Literally all of her friends have a bad impression of me before meeting me because she'll complain about all of our like dirty laundry and just like nonstop complaints about me. And then when they meet me, they're like, Oh, this guy's actually normal. And that's not true. He's not normal. But so the same friend, like she's one of my closest friends and we basically use her as therapy now.

14:12 Like I use her as therapy. So every time I see her with Frank, I would just be complaining about Frank the whole time. And her personality is very similar to Frank's. So she would be like, Oh, I see where you're coming from, but I also see where you're coming from. And, you know, talk us through it. And I always feel a lot better after. Yeah. It's funny because when we found out that I was really similar to her in personality type, Annie got very jealous in that moment being like, well, why don't you just marry her then?

14:42 Like, what are you doing with me? Like you guys are so similar. Well, until you realize that Frank is really difficult to date. So if you put a Frank next to another Frank, like they'll never get along. I mean, yeah, that's true. Like I've met people like guys with similar personality type to me and I don't get along with them very well. And so where were we? We were just moved in together. Oh, we talked about the fights and we were going like, I guess we can skip over to like Japan or something. Yeah. So I had always planned on going to Japan with my girlfriends in the past, but it just never happened because I would always break up with them before going.

15:18 And so I tried to plan it with Annie being like, oh, maybe this time we'll actually make it. And it was going to be a sign whether or not we were going to stay together. Like, yeah, work out. And like, we almost didn't make it there. So like, it was so tumultuous, like what happened on our way there, like a ton of things went wrong. Like, like, I think at one point I was almost thinking like, I'm just not going to go on this trip. Yeah. Like while you were on the flight or something. Yeah. Like a connecting flight.

15:46 I was like, I should just take a flight. Oh, yeah. Or go to Iowa or something. Oh my gosh. Um, but I think that was also the, I think the beginning of the trip was really rough, but it actually ended up being like one of the best trips. Yep. I know Frank is really impatient. So whenever we take a trip together, I always have to be like super, super composed and just like, get my shit together. So that we do not explode. Um, but what happened was that morning we had a really early flight and Frank is not a morning person.

16:18 He gets really grumpy and he needs like several hours to wake up from sleeping. Um, so it was like a 4:00 AM flight or something. We leave really early before we left. I was like, babe, do you need your wallet? And he looked at it. No, no, I did. I did. Did you? You looked at it and was like, no, I only need my passport. And mind you, before we left, I was like, Oh, I did some research online. I was like, you need a lot of cash in Japan because they don't take credit cards. And Frank was like, no, I don't need a lot of cash.

16:51 Like I'm just going to bring my card. No worries. And then against as well, I took out a bunch of cash, like as much as I had. So I had about $600, $600 to a thousand, something like that. Yeah. It wasn't a lot, but I was like, Oh, I'll, you know, well, we can get by, especially he has his credit card. And that was kind of the idea that I was going to like put out the cash and he was going to put anything else on his credit card. So we go to the airport and he's sitting there and he's like, I'm really hungry.

17:23 I'm going to go get some food. And so he goes and he comes back and he's like, babe, I don't have money for food. I didn't bring my wallet. Yeah. So like at that point we had prepaid for a lot of things. So we prepaid for the Airbnbs and hotels. We prepaid for our rail pass, which basically lets you use the Japan rail system unlimited number of times in like a two week time period or something. And then we also prepaid for all of our flights. So like our major expenses were paid for. The only things that we didn't pay for were just like day to day food.

17:59 And at that point, Annie, like didn't have a lot of cash just in general. I just like didn't have a lot of money in general. I didn't have a lot of money. And so I had like a decent amount and I was thinking like, Oh, I could pay for a lot of this because I think at that point we were still splitting rent too. And so you were paying slightly more rent than I was. But I was basically living like paycheck to paycheck. So. Yeah. And I don't know how I forgot my credit card because in my mind, I thought I had taken like one out along with my passport and stuff.

18:31 But I guess I didn't. And so the entire trip, we basically have to live on this like $600 budget. We actually did manage to get some more cash. Yeah. So I still had my credit card. Like I still had my wallet. But my thing is, I don't know why, but every time I go to a new country, I get into this like very stingy money saving mode. I just don't want to spend any extra like more money than I have to. So as soon as Frank told me that he didn't have his wallet, I just like get into this calculation phase. Like I'm going to get paid next month.

19:06 Once that money comes in, we'll still be in Japan. So we have time to take out extra money. Like at least on the last like three days of the trip. So as long as $600 lasts for like the first seven days or something, like I started calculating in my head. And for some reason, Frank got mad at me for doing that. I was like, why are you so poor? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I got so upset and sad because I'm like, you're the one that left your wallet and you're blaming me for being poor. Yeah. I'm trying to think back.

19:39 Like in that moment, I was thinking like, ah, this person is so financially irresponsible. How did she not have any money? Blah, blah, blah. But it was definitely like my fault for forgetting my credit card. And it's like, it's not that I was financially irresponsible. Like I didn't have money. I just wanted to be responsible with the way that I, you know, spent it. But yeah, it was a super rocky start, like where we like land from our connecting flight. And at this point, we're both very mad at each other.

20:07 And I'm thinking like, oh my God, do I even want to go anymore? Should I just like take a flight somewhere else? Yes. Because I still have my phone. So I could have booked another flight with my phone or like PayPal or something. But we kind of go to Japan and the rest of the trip goes fairly smoothly. Yeah. Um, the money issued actually didn't affect us at all. Like we weren't able to eat really high end places, but we still ate a ton of food. Yeah. We pretty much got to eat whatever we wanted. Um, we just didn't have like a wagyu steak dinner.

20:39 We didn't go to one of those, like a public bath. Oh, and we also didn't do like the more expensive tourist attractions. Yeah. But in general, like we were eating so much every day and we were walking like 17,000 steps every day. 22,000. Like, yeah, it was a crazy amount of walking. We were basically just walk, eat, walk, eat, walk, eat the entire day. Yeah. And like traveling with Frank, the best is to just not plan anything. Yeah. I think we had like specific major attractions, but outside of that, we would not plan like on a day to day.

21:10 Um, I guess the best food in Japan actually was from a lot of the convenience stores there on every block. There's like two or three convenience stores that are open 24 seven and the food is surprisingly high quality. So like there are seven 11 in Japan, but it's nothing like the seven 11 in the West. Like the seven 11 in the West, you think of this like kind of trashy, low grade, terrible tasting food. But in Japan, it's like a legitimate place to eat. Like people will go there after work for a meal. It's like one of the best snacks.

21:42 We always ate our breakfast there. Cause like nothing opens like, yeah, in the morning earlier than like 11 30 or something. So it's like a ghost town. If you head out early in the morning. Um, and if you do want to take out cash, seven 11 is the only place. Seven 11 is the only place to do it. Yeah. There's probably other places, but like nowhere that was really convenient for us. But yeah, in Japan, one thing I was actually a little disappointed by, we went to the fish market, which is known to be pretty famous.

22:11 Um, and I didn't think it was that good. Like the sushi we ate there. I just thought it was, it was actually worse than sushi we'd had in the States. Yeah. So they only have nigiri and sashimi. They never have any of those like double dragon rolls, which is Frank's favorite. And because the fish is so fresh, it's very chewy. Um, it's not like the frozen fish here where then it gets like softer. Yeah. I think that's what you like. Um, so it totally depends, but like the fish is definitely really fresh. Yeah.

22:45 It's fresh, but in my opinion, did not taste that good. Yeah. Um, the one thing, the best food we had was just noodles in general. Like any noodle place we went to would be amazing. So whether that's like ramen noodles or like udon, udon, fast food places, like every noodle place we went to, regardless of the price was just absolutely amazing. And mochi was also the best mochi. Yeah. We've tried a ton of mochi since coming back, but they've all been pretty bad. Um, the only place that we've had good mochi was in this like, uh, Japanese store in Japan, Italian, San Jose.

23:19 That was like the only place that even come close. Um, but yeah, we're hanging out in Japan. We're walking around everywhere. Uh, one of the highlights of our trip actually is we go to the city called Nara where you can interact with a bunch of deer. So they'll let you buy these like crackers and feed the deer. And Annie was like getting bullied by these deer because they're super friendly with humans. They're very used to it. Yeah. And so they like go up to her and like bite her and like headbutt her and be like, give us these crackers.

23:45 Yeah. They get so aggressive. And Frank refuses to feed the deer, even though it's. I mean, I wasn't interested. I'm not, I'm not super into like animals in general. Um, but that was actually only like a half day or maybe. Yeah. We did a half day in Nara and then we went to Osaka. I don't remember at what point, but I lose our rail passes. So like, Oh, these rail passes, how they work is essentially you, you prepay for them. And each of you gets like this train ticket type thing that lets you use the rail an unlimited number of times.

24:18 So this is actually a more convenient way to travel from city to city rather than having to take a flight. And because I did not, I don't know why, but I, at the time I didn't trust Annie to like keep these safe. I thought she would like lose them. She just thinks that I'm this idiot and you know, can't do anything. So the whole time I keep these rail passes from like, you know, the States all the way to this last stop. We were like in Osaka ready to head back to Tokyo to like catch our flight. And Frank was like, Annie, give me the rail passes.

24:52 Like, I don't trust you to, you know, carry us to like the end of the trip with these rail passes. I'm like, I'm fine. I'm fine. And he's like, no, I insist. So I give him the rail passes in the train station. And then we go get food, like literally under 20 minutes. We are about to go into the train station. And I asked Frank for the rail passes and he's like, I don't know where they are. And so he was just wearing this large sweatshirt and he just puts the rail passes like right in his pocket. And it was like, went in from one end and went out from the other while he was buying food.

25:31 Yeah. So what happened is they basically slipped out. Luckily people in Japan are very nice and we were able to find them really quickly. Like in five minutes or so. So like when Frank realized I was gone, I just like frantically starts to like look all over the place. I saw one like, you know, 20 feet over there. So I run over, I grab it and like, we cannot find the other one. So I'm like going crazy. And then I go to, I think I go to like the train person. I'm like, oh, we lost a rail pass. And then this really nice American couple was like, oh, are you looking for a rail pass?

26:07 Like we found one. We gave it to like the officer. And like, that's when we found the other one. But like ever since that time. Okay. Okay. I mean, I'm sure. So like many examples of like when we go to Costco and you have to give their receipt for you to check off. And she'll be like, where's the receipt? I gave it to you. I'd be like, no, you didn't. Yeah. She's like, yes, I did. Give me the receipt. I gave it to you. I'm like, and you did not give me this receipt. I don't know what you're talking about. Like check your pockets.

26:36 And she's like, no, like I gave it to you. And then I like check in her pocket. I pull it out. And she's like, oh, okay. And this has happened multiple times. It's not. I don't know why. Every time she thinks she gave me the receipt. So like stuff like that made me think like, oh, she can't be trusted with the thing. Yeah. But like in general, she can. And like, obviously I cannot be trusted. Yeah. We have many, many more examples. Like two, I can think like off the top of my head. And we're just going to kind of go off on a tangent.

27:04 One time Frank was like booking a flight to visit me. I won't say the location, but basically he books the wrong dates. So like it was supposed to be like, let's say August 10th to the 20th. He books it for like August 21st to the 30th. And so I can't. Oh, so right after he books it, he was like, why did I get the wrong confirmation? I'm like, you probably booked for the wrong date. So then I have to go and call the airline and then fix it because he hates customers. He hates talking to customer service.

27:37 And then the other time. Oh, yeah. So he decided to treat me to a play while we were in New York. Hamilton. No, it was Book of Mormon. Book of Mormon. Yeah. And he books it for the Tuesday after we leave New York. And there are like no refunds or something. And I had to be on the phone for literally two hours trying to change these tickets because he made the wrong choice. I have this really bad habit where I guess I don't double check my work. I just kind of assume I got it right on the first time. Oh, so this kind of goes back to like our school days and test taking.

28:16 So I would always do really well on tests. And I very rarely double check my work because I just think like, oh, I just got this right. Yeah. Annie was very meticulous. No, I did terrible in tests. And it was usually because I read the question wrong. And like, that's kind of what I learned. Like, so as an adult, I'm like, if I had just rewrite the question like a couple of times, I would have gotten it right. So now whenever I do like important things, I will make sure that I triple check my work. So that's why I'm still like not very detail oriented in like everyday stuff.

28:51 Like I lose the Costco receipts. But if it's important, like booking a flight or, you know, booking tickets where it's like actual money involved, I always double check. Yeah. But like in general, our Japan trip went very smoothly outside of that rail pass thing and the like lack of money, which like didn't really affect us at all. Yeah. Like in hindsight, it was pretty fun because it was good because we only spent less than $3,000 on both of us. For two weeks. For two weeks. Yeah. So really good deal. And was that including the housing and stuff?

29:27 Yeah, it was including everything. Yeah. Yeah. So it was an extremely cheap vacation. We still had a ton of fun. We had a bunch of pictures. Oh, you're really sad about missing like the cherry blossom season, right? Oh yeah. Like cherry blossom. I guess like it just happens earlier and earlier every year now. Like it used to be like you can go at the beginning of April and you'll catch those cherry blossoms, but it actually bloomed like a couple of weeks earlier that year. Yeah. And I thought it was still fine, but it wasn't like full bloom.

29:54 It was like starting to decline. So it wasn't like peak. Yeah. I thought it was fine. I mean, in my like, in my opinion, like if we are already paying, I guess, top price for, you know, going during Sakura season, I want to see like the foam blossom. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Like I guess other highlights of the Japan trip. We went to a couple like Pokemon centers. We went to Akihabara, which is like the Japanese Mecca for nerdy type stuff. Um, we were in Tokyo for several days, but I don't really remember much from our time there.

30:29 It was Saka and Kyoto, which were both more like historical. There were like temples and stuff there, which I thought was actually kind of boring. But like, I was also kind of stressed because I was also trying to study for interviews at that time. Um, so that was like a slight damper on the vacation, but it wasn't too bad. I was studying maybe like an hour or two or try to every day. Yeah. I think you were just like in general, more stressed. Cause I think you were unhappy at your job at the time he was at credit karma.

31:01 And that was also when like the crypto thing started blowing up. And so you were basically debating, like if you should like go to another job or, you know, do your own thing, but you were in general, like unhappy because credit karma wasn't like, wasn't clear on if they're giving you a promotion. Like they were basically kind of dragging their feet on everything. Yeah. So they ended up giving me a pretty substantial raise, like a 15% raise. Uh, but even with the raise, I was able to get more money at my next job because you just, it's really hard to match market rate for software engineers.

31:38 Um, but I mean, I really liked my team, um, my director and the rest of the guys, they have like a going away dinner or lunch or something for me. Um, and then they like went all the way up to like the CTO to like approve. Giving me more money to get me to stay. But eventually the CTO said no and said like, Oh, you know, there's people leaving all the time. Like if we make an exception for Frank, we're going to have to start making it for lots of people. Um, that same CTO was later found out to be reading our private Slack messages.

32:09 So like in Slack as an admin, you're able to read all of your employee Slack messages. Like they're not private. Really? If you're writing sketchy things, you should be worried because that's not private. And so what ended up happening is this news came out that he was reading these messages. And a glass door review came out being like, yeah, our CTO is super sketchy. He's been reading my private messages and other employees. And he basically couldn't refute it. And they're like, you know, they responded with like, Oh, the employer responded with blah, blah, blah.

32:39 And everyone's like, he didn't say he didn't do that. Like he did do that. Like he did do that. Uh, and then of course the other half of the people being like, Oh, you didn't know about this already. Uh, but yeah, I obviously have a pretty bad impression of that guy because I would have stayed, uh, had they given me the compensation bump. Um, and like, I liked my team at the time a lot. I thought my job was pretty good. Uh, I mean, everything about credit karma was like pretty decent. Yeah. They will have all these like nice events that you took me to.

33:06 Yeah. They had a bunch of events. It was definitely a startup life. Um, yeah, I guess going back to the end of the vacation, we kind of go back home without any issues. And eventually I do end up deciding to start a crypto startup. So this is in like 2017. I leave my credit karma job. I was evaluating several different ideas. So it was either like AI machine learning type deal, um, AR VR or blockchain. And basically decided like blockchain had the most potential. Uh, eventually that startup kind of fails. And I'm forced to get another job, which ends up being Grubhub in Chicago.

33:51 At that point, we're kind of looking to buy a house. Yeah. So I think the conversation went like we were looking for somewhere that, you know, paid just as much as San Francisco, but also had a cheaper cost of living. And we were evaluating like Seattle, Chicago, and you basically asked me like, Hey, if we were going to move somewhere, where would you go? Um, and I said, it could be Seattle, Chicago. And like, I think there was another like Austin, Texas or something. No, I didn't want to go there, but maybe you put it on there.

34:25 But anyways, um, and then we chose Chicago just because, you know, I, I had been to Chicago before and I thought it reminded me a lot of like Toronto. A lot of people say that, um, and so that's where we decided to go. And then we almost broke up before going there. Oh yeah. It's like, it's not an easy decision for me. Like, as you know, to like to you, it seems like a really simple decision, but he was also like, Hey, you know, you don't have to work anymore. You can just like come hang out with me in Chicago.

34:57 I'm going to be making plenty of money for the both of us. And for me, I just like, I just moved to San Francisco for my job. And for me to just like uproot myself, go to Chicago with this random guy that I'm dating, not have a job lined up. Like, what if we break up? And then what do I do? Like, do I go back, find another job? Like, do I find a job in Chicago? Do I go back to San Francisco? It's just gonna like mess everything up. So I was having a really tough time like deciding, even though I contributed in like the, you know, plan of moving to Chicago in the first place.

35:36 But it was just like really hard for me to decide when it actually came about. Yeah. And I think one of your major worries at the time was you didn't want to find another job. Like you're really against like interviewing and looking for another job. And then eventually ended up working out because her job allowed her to work remote in Chicago. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And at that point we hadn't gotten engaged yet. Like we got engaged while I was in Chicago. But basically the Chicago job ended up turning out really well because the stock exploded to all time highs.

36:08 My stock compensation package like forexed. And so like I think my total compensation when I first joined was only going to be 200k per year. But then it actually ended up being over 300k because of how high the stock went up. And so we had all this money. Our place in Chicago was like decent. We got it for pretty cheap. It was like 1850 came with a parking spot. We had two grocery stores right next to us. And I think I started to gain some weight there because there was like a bunch of pizza and donuts and just.

36:39 Yeah. And you had already gained a bunch of weight because like basically Frank went home for a week before his job started. He gained like 10 pounds while he was home. Yeah. And so and we were. Oh, and then your family visited you in SF. Yeah. So because we were leaving SF, I invited my family down for a trip. Like basically my whole family came down. And we stayed there for like seven days or something. And because Frank's Grubhub had this like $10,000 stipend for a moving fee. Yeah. He basically just paid for all of our food and hotel like everything like for my family to come visit San Francisco.

37:22 Oh, yeah. Like and you went home to live for like a whole week. So it ended up working out pretty well. And that one week, all I did was play video games and like eat food for an entire week. Yeah. I didn't even move outside of my house or my parents house for that entire week. So it was pretty good. So yeah, now we're in Chicago. Things are getting more serious. We get engaged. Well, before we get engaged, we actually had like a really bad fight. Oh, we did have a really bad fight. Yeah. What was it about though?

37:56 I don't remember what it was about. But you know, knowing Frank, it's never about anything. But like, but it's Frank has like a lot of pride. So whenever you fight him, like even if he's wrong, he's right. So I always have to be the one apologizing. And like, I don't know what we were fighting about. But basically, it came down to we're very mad at each other. And I asked Frank, like, should I move out? Like, it's so bad that like, I think it's just not worth it. Maybe I should just find another place by myself.

38:31 Chill for a couple months and like kind of reevaluate. And you were like, yeah, I think that's a good idea. And then I like, I was like, no, I don't want to do that. I was like, no. And then the next day, I went to visit him at work. And like, I guess we resolved it that night. And then the next day, he was like, do you want a diamond or like a lab diamond or a moisenite? And so that's kind of when I was like, oh, yeah. Like in my mind, I'm like an all or nothing type of guy. So at that point, I was thinking like, okay, we're either breaking up immediately, like in the very near future, or we have to get married, which is probably like not the right way to think about it.

39:16 But that's how my mind works. Like I go for, basically, I'm like all in, I'm either all in or I'm all out. So like with Annie at that point, I basically made the decision that I am all in and I'm going to marry her. And like, Annie's more of a romantic. So she would have preferred if I did all of this in like secret and like did like a surprise engagement or something. But I'm a bit more practical. So I wanted to know like, like, what diamond do you want? Because if it was up to me, I would have just gotten like a fake moisenite or even something cheaper that looks like a diamond.

39:46 But then Annie's like, oh, no, I want a real diamond. And then she like said, like, I want this cut, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. So we actually like kind of went through the process together of, you know, selecting the rain. And we actually got it from a really good jeweler. Well, it's not really a jeweler, but like they have pretty good deals on their diamonds. And so we were able to select a diamond for a much cheaper price and it would have been like if we went to like a branded place. Yeah. So basically I found this tool online that would give you the best price to performance ratio.

40:21 So our budget at that time, we didn't actually have a ton of money. I think I only had like 10 or 15 K in cash total in my checking account. And so like most of my money was tied up in other stuff. And so at that point, my budget was like 10 K because I'm like, oh, I don't want to spend all of my money. But then the like best price to performance ratio was like 13 K. So I'm like, oh, well, I got to get this one now because like the value quote unquote. Yeah. Because Frank is all about the value. Yeah. And then, I mean, basically we get engaged in the engagement story is like that also didn't go correctly.

40:56 Because like basically what ended up happening is I was trying to send her this like surprise video. And basically it's like a picture book of a bunch of our photos together. So the jeweler actually sent you a prompt to create one of these like online like picture books or like memory books. And so basically I make it, I send it to Annie. I'm like ready to propose that night. Yeah. And she like can't get it to work. Okay. So I was cleaning like I just had like finished cooking and I was cleaning the kitchen.

41:28 And Frank was like, hey, I just sent you something. Do you want to check your email? I was like, wait, wait, wait, I'm busy. Like, and then so I continued to clean. And then in 30 minutes, he was like, hey, can you check your email, please? And I'm like, no, no, I'm busy. And then he just got like kind of like frustrated. I was just like, hey, it's really important. Like check your email. And then so I was like, oh, okay, fine. And then I go open my computer and then my computer crashes. And that is not what happened.

41:58 So basically she could not open the email, get it to work for the life of her. I'm just thinking like, why can she not do the simple thing? He was like, God damn it. I have to fix your computer now. And then so he takes over the computer and just like frantically like gets it to work. And then he passes it back to me. But at that point I'm like, okay, I'm not interested. The moment is ruined. The moment is ruined. This is definitely not happening tonight. But then I'm thinking like after all that and like we go to sleep, I kind of like calm down.

42:31 No, no, no. So but that night I like open it. Like once you fixed it, I open it and then I see this like picture book or whatever. I'm like, oh, are you going to propose? And then he's like, not anymore. He just leaves. I don't leave because we live together. Yeah. I just like goes to the other room. And so that during that night, as Annie is sleeping, I slip on the ring while she's sleeping. And then my idea is like, oh, yeah, I'll like propose in the morning when she wakes up. And then she wakes up and she sees like the ring on her finger.

43:05 Yeah, I was like, it feels like something's on my finger. And obviously, I kind of knew just because, you know, we had that talk last night. So I was like, I feel like something's on my finger. And I look and like, you know, I had a ring on it. And then I was kind of just like, what? Like, you didn't even propose. And then Frank is like, and I'm like, you have to propose to me. He's like, no. I'm like, babe. He's like, I refuse. It's already on. It's already done.

43:40 And like, so I basically like, I got upset. I forced him to like propose to me. I was like, fine. Well, you marry me. Yeah, it wasn't my best moment for sure. And so I had like other ideas like renting out a movie theater or like getting a drone and like having that. But then I saw something like a guy tried to do that. And then the drone actually dropped the ring. Yeah, they like lost it. And like the movie theater thing wasn't as easy as I thought it would be because it's like you can't just easily rent out a movie.

44:09 Yeah, you probably have to buy like every single ticket there or something. Yeah. But he was telling me all these ideas. I'm like, that would have been really nice. That would have also been very nice. Yes. I mean, at that point, we're engaged. We start planning the wedding. Mostly Annie's like doing essentially all of it herself. I'm just like, she'll ever so often ask for my opinion. I'll just be like, yep, that looks good. That looks good. That looks good. Like in my mind, I'm like, I just wanted us to like go sign some papers and like do like a really, really small wedding with maybe like our families and maybe like a couple close friends.

44:48 Even at like the last moment, like Frank was still like, I don't want to have this wedding. Like this is not what I want. Yeah. Yeah. And I had also read something that said that like the more extravagant your wedding, the less likely it is for your marriage to work out. But this is kind of like the actual wedding itself was great. Like I thought it was definitely worth it, especially because Annie planned so much of it herself. We actually saved probably over like $10,000. We actually did sign our official wedding registry papers in Chicago.

45:21 So I don't remember exactly when we did that. We did it on 420. But basically, the idea was that like, oh, if we get this process started sooner, we can start getting Annie's green card sooner. And like at that point, like in my mind, we're like basically married already. And so we thought like, okay, might as well make it official. And yeah, that was just like the two of us. We went in, got it signed, got it officiated by this like the random dude who does that paperwork. Yeah. Yeah. And you don't need a, you don't need a witness if you're getting married in Chicago.

45:58 So. Oh, and I think at this point, I don't remember at what point we started to get more wealthy. Maybe even started off in the Bay Area, but we started checking out more and more Michelin stars. And I basically realized that I hate going to Michelin restaurants. Yeah. Okay. So we actually started going to Michelin stars in Chicago just because like the cost of living is so low in Chicago. And like Frank was making quite a bit of money. Like I was always making like no amounts of money. So, you know, let's just pretend I don't make any money at all.

46:28 And so basically we had enough money to spend on like anything we wanted. But we were not the type of people to like buy luxury bags or like luxury cars. Like we, we don't spend on that type of stuff. We also lived in a decently cheap apartment, which was only like $1,800 a month. So we spent all of our money on food. Like we don't look at prices when we go grocery shopping. We don't look at prices when we go eating at restaurants, which is really nice. So we've probably been to like three or four or even more Michelin stars in like specifically in Chicago.

47:12 In Chicago, we went to like three or four. Yeah. And then later on when we went to the Bay Area, we went to a bunch more. But like, yeah, in my opinion, it's just not worth it because going to a Michelin star restaurant, like if you think about the quality of food, it can only get so much better. So it's like a logarithmic scale for how much better it tastes. And so they start to like add to the quote unquote experience in all these other ways. So we went to a three star, like Acadia. We went to Alinea.

47:36 Alinea. Yeah. And so what they do is they basically have all this food that looks really interesting, but doesn't taste that much better. Yeah. It's, it's all about the experience and tricking your mind. So, um, for example, they came up with a jar of what looked like vanilla beans, like fresh vanilla beans. So I was like, oh, it's a vanilla bean. And then Frank was like, it looks like a dehydrated, like green bean, but it actually was a vanilla flavored beef jerky that was made to look like a vanilla bean.

48:10 And they also have tomato purees, um, put into like a mold that looks like a strawberry. So you think you're eating a strawberry, but it's tomato flavored. So like, it's honestly not even for everyone. Like at some point, like it's not even enjoyable anymore because it's just, um, but the coolest part about Alinea is at the very end, the dessert that you get is a helium balloon that's made out of apple taffy. So it's, they give you a balloon, but you can like scrunch it up and eat it. Yeah. I think they also change the menu every so often.

48:44 So they might not have that anymore. Uh, but that's what they had when we went there. Um, and after like a couple more times of this type of experience, I'm just like, okay, this is not for me. Cause it, it takes a long time. They take you through all these tiny courses and ends up being like a three hour affair typically. Yeah. And like every time we go, Frank is like this. Yeah. I'm just thinking like, he's like, I'm about to fall. Yeah. I'm like tired. I'm like not getting my food quick enough. Cause like, I'm usually hungry by the time we go, I'd rather just like go to a place and eat a bunch of food.

49:18 Uh, that tastes good, but like comes out in a fast manner. And sometimes they'll try to like sit down and talk with you, which I am not into. Oh, right. So for Valentine's day, we went to this place called parachute in Chicago. And the lady was like, Oh, like, are you guys from the Bay area? And we're like, yeah. Like, how do you know? And she was like, Oh, like I can just help by the look of you or something. And then, so she was like having small talk and we were like talking about a lot of things. And then she was like, she looks over to Frank and was like, Oh, is this your boyfriend?

49:47 Or I think you were my fiance at the time. And then she was like, Oh, nice to meet you. And Frank was like, yeah, he tries to turn away. And then she was like, he's like, he just like hates people. It wasn't that exaggerated, but that's pretty much what happened. Um, during that time we got really into board games. I bought like, I don't know, a hundred or so board games. Oh my gosh. Frank is a collector. Yeah. And we, um, I also bought all my Pokemon cards during that time. So like in 2018, I basically bought every single holographic Pokemon card from the first 11 sets.

50:30 I also bought every holographic from the first like six or so sets of Yu-Gi-Oh! And at that time, Annie was like hating on me so much, complaining about how all these cards were coming in all the time, which actually ended up being one of my best investments. Cause they ended up like 10 X-ing. Yeah. I think, you know, it's good to kind of address our investment style. Like I always, you know, I was brought up with like, you know, you got to save what you have and just like save. Like, that's the only thing I knew.

51:00 Like I barely invested at that point and I wasn't willing to lose what I put in an investment. Whereas Frank is more like optimistic. Like he doesn't really think about that. He's going to lose that money, but he thinks about what he's going to gain from investing that money. Yeah. And then Annie's background is she's much more into real estate. Like I've never been that much into real estate, which is why she was always looking for either investment properties or buying a house. And then for me, I was always looking at crypto stocks or like these collectibles because that's just kind of the stuff that I knew.

51:33 Yeah. So I was really unhappy with Frank buying all these to me like garbage because I thought it was such a waste of money. Like I would have rather like, you know, save that money. Yeah. So like another investment I made, I think in the prior year in 2017, I put like 5k into ETH and ETH was only like $50 at the time. So I was able to buy a ton of ETH with just 5k. But it's like all these things. I usually get in pretty early on these trends to get an early on a trend. You essentially have to be interested in it.

52:04 And I'm interested in a lot of things, but it's like hard to convince someone who doesn't know a lot about that space. So like to Annie's mind, she's like, oh, this is just like children's cardboard. Like, how's this valuable? But to me, it's like, oh, this is nostalgia for childhood. And these are things that are rare that will never be printed again. And there's like hundreds of millions of other people who also enjoy this. It's the number one franchise in the world. And then I think second is Marvel, but there's like a huge gap between the two.

52:31 And so like, eventually it did end up working out. And at that time, I wanted to buy more rare cards, but I kind of held back because it was just giving me so much crap every day. Every day, a couple of envelopes would come in and he would like open it and like lay it all out on the floor. And like he would just sit on the floor, like looking at his cards and like putting them into binders all day. It's just such a waste of time. Which ended up not being a waste of time. But there's lots of stories where it's like, Annie doubts me in the beginning, but then later on I'm proven right.

53:09 But there's also lots of stories where I was wrong eventually, which I talk more about in like my investing and finance podcast slash TikToks if people are interested. Yeah. Oh, we actually also bought our first investment property. Oh, yeah. And I was super against the idea at the time because I was like, well, mostly just because I didn't understand it as well. Because I was really familiar with like stocks, crypto and these collectibles. So like the situation was almost flipped or in the sense where I was like, no, like real estate is a bubble, blah, blah, blah.

53:39 Yeah. And rightfully so, because I don't do research. Like, so basically I went to Toronto by myself. One of my friends is like a developer or he works for a developer. And there was like a friends and family event where you can get in on these like deals early. And so I basically came back and Frank and I weren't married at the time. Like, yeah, I think we were about to be married on paper soon at this point, but we weren't married. And so I came back. I'm like, babe, we got to invest in this. And like, again, we didn't have that much money at the time.

54:11 But the whole point of like getting a development or pre-construction is that you have a lot of leverage. And so you only need to pay 10% like for the first like three years or something. And so it was just a feeling that I had that this was going to be a good project. Yeah. And like we fought about it because I would ask her all these questions and she'd be like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't ask me. Like, I don't know how to explain this. But eventually, yeah, we did buy it. And the investment did end up working out in the sense that like we've made money on it.

54:46 Not like a ton of money, but like a decent amount. So yeah, bringing it back to our marriage story a little bit. At this point, Annie's done most of the preparations. We're going to our wedding destination. We've invited all of our family and friends. It's going to be around 200 people for the total. No, no, it was only like 70 people. Oh, 70. Okay. And so it's much bigger than I would have liked, but still smaller than like a super mega wedding. Yeah. And surprisingly, you go through that list. Like it adds up really quickly.

55:17 We actually saved probably over like $10,000. Yeah, probably more than that. I mean, so we were pretty lucky in a few cents. Like the venue that we got is like an unconventional venue place. It's like really nice. It's on top of a mountain. But it's not typically used as a wedding venue. It's usually like a ski resort. And so that's why they gave it out for like such a cheap price. And then we also did all the flowers ourselves. My dad and I are both like very DIY people. So like we did all the decorations and the flowers ourselves.

55:55 I also made my own cake. And the part that we spent the most amount of money on is the videographer and the photographer, which were like really important to me and like my side of the family. Like we just like want all the memories. That ended up being like $10,000 out of our like $30,000 budget. It ended up being extremely worth it in my opinion. Like we had a ton of really good pictures that I still use to this day for random stuff. Like we have really good headshots. They're very professional. Shout out to Cliff Ma from Cliff Ma Photography in Vancouver.

56:33 If you guys have a chance to plan your wedding photos, definitely check him out. Yeah, he does very like candid, like happy, natural shots. So our photos are definitely like the highlight. Yeah, I think the week or maybe I don't know what time before the wedding, we get in another huge fight. Yeah. So I think you talked about it on the TikTok. Is that the fight you were talking about? Yeah, yeah. So what ends up happening is we meet with our, with one of Annie's good friends, Cherry. The same friend that we've basically been talking about.

57:10 Talking about the podcast. Yeah. At like this cafe. And I don't know what leads into this. Like Cherry maybe asked Annie about her YouTube channel or something and like how it's going. And basically when Annie started the YouTube channel, she made like her own rule of like, oh, I'll make one video per week or something like that. Yeah, I promise I was going to do one upload per week. But it ended up being a lot harder because like I did cakes or like baking and it actually takes so much effort to like bake a cake and I decorate it in like amazing fashion.

57:42 Like it, you know, like I did like a unicorn cake and like I did a Pikachu cake and it takes a long time and so much effort and that cake just like goes to waste. Like if I was doing a cake every single week, like we will have so much cake. And now I see on TikTok people have like these dummy cakes. I wish I had known about that because it would have saved so much time. Basically, I did not do one cake per week and I burnt out really fast, too, because it was just not enjoyable for me. Like I didn't want to do cakes.

58:14 And also I was like eating a lot of it, which is not good for my health because like she would make something and be like, oh, it's a waste just to throw it away. So I try to eat some. But yeah, eventually. So this topic came up in this cafe with Cherry. And I'm basically like, oh, like Annie stopped. Like she doesn't have the willpower. Like there's no way she can be an entrepreneur because like the topic was around like Annie starting something. And I was saying basically saying like, oh, like she can't do it because of like she failed doing this YouTube thing.

58:41 Yeah. But then you said it in a really mean way where you were like, you lied to me. And I was like, I didn't lie to you. Like I fully started this with the intention of like trying to go through with it, but it just didn't work out that way. And you're like, no, you lied to me. And then so I got really upset, obviously. And then we kind of decided to leave the cafe and leave Cherry. But we proceeded to like fight the whole way to our like transportation. Like we were taking the public transportation. And so I was like really upset.

59:14 And this is the day before our wedding, like the day before we are supposed to get married. Um, we were already legally married, but we were having the, you know, the family friend ceremony. And so, you know, being a girl usually, you know, wine and like, you're just like, well, fine. Now I want to break up. Right. And you expect the guy to be like, oh, I'm so sorry, babe. Like, I didn't mean that. And so I pulled out that card. I was like, okay, fine. I just don't think that this is going to work out. And I think we should break up.

59:47 And Frank was like, yeah, I agree. We should call off the wedding. And I was like, what? Frank just got so upset. He was just like, yeah, no, like, and then so he just started walking off by himself. And then I was like, okay, like, we can't do that. Like, this is literally the day before the wedding. So I'm like chasing him. I'm like, again, this is not my fault. Like this is me. This is Frank being an asshole to me. So I'm like chasing him and be like, I'm so sorry. Like, I didn't mean to say that. Like, I'm so sorry.

1:00:21 Like, can we please not break up? Yeah. I mean, there's like other stuff that happened, but like, it's mostly just us arguing over. Cause like, it's not just the fight itself, but it's like, we would also bring up a bunch of past things that happened to support our arguments. Cause like at this point we've been dating for like two or three years or something like that. And so there's like, when you have a fight with your significant other, it's usually not just about the fight. But then also like all the things that happened prior in your relationship.

1:00:51 And it kind of just like builds and builds and like each party gets more and more upset. Um, and my thing has always been like, I don't want to support bad behavior. So like if Annie is being whiny or something, I'm like, well, I'm not going to give into this. Cause like, this is not what I want to reward and what I want to see in the future. Yeah. I always describe Frank as like, or the way that he treats me. Like he doesn't treat me like a spouse. He treats me like a employee that he holds to a very high standard.

1:01:18 No, no, no, no, no. I treat you like someone I, okay. So I always tell Annie, I expect her to be better than me in every single way. Like I treat, I have such high expectations of her because I believe in her. But then her interpretation is like, oh, well don't believe in me. Like I have no expectations. Just let me do whatever. Yeah. I just want to be protected and loved, like forgiven for whatever fault that I have. Like always be like, babe, do you love me? And he'll be like, yes. And I'm like forever.

1:01:44 And he's like, no, it depends on you. Like it's just like so unromantic. Or if she like killed someone, right? Or if she cheats on me, like clearly it does depend on some factors. That's not what I want to hear, right? Essentially what ends up happening is we do make up, we have the wedding, everything goes fine. But essentially like, that's kind of the full journey. Like clearly a lot has happened after we got married. I think what kind of sums it up really well is our relationship has been like a rollercoaster in terms of like ups and downs.

1:02:17 The highs are really high. The lows are really low. So because Annie and I actually fought so much throughout our entire relationship, it actually made both of us into better people. Like Annie has become much more patient. I've become a lot better at communication, even though there's still a lot to be improved. Like I've worked on it a lot. I've also learned to be a lot more patient. And like we've rubbed off a lot on each other. So I'm able to see other people's perspective a lot more. Whereas before I was much more like self-centric the way that I thought and just like my logical approach to things.

1:02:50 Whereas now I kind of take more of like the emotional side or like other people's perspective. Whereas like Annie now also can see like a lot of the rational reasonings behind the way that I do things in the way that I think. And so we're both growing as people. And like without the other person, we would both have been worse off, in my opinion, just because we have a lot of strengths that the other does not. And we've actually complemented each other really well. And like even to this day, we continue to grow.

1:03:20 We continue to learn how to communicate better. Obviously, if anyone who's been in a relationship knows there's tons of compromises, but essentially it's like you tackle problems together as a team. Like whenever we have success, like it's our success rather than individual success. Even though I like to always claim all the success for myself. And so I guess like that kind of wraps up this episode of Frankly Speaking. Thank you everyone for listening to our love story. It started off with Craigslist and has ended with two little baby boys, a successful and happy marriage and all of you listening to us.

1:03:59 Thanks for listening to the Frankly Speaking podcast and we'll see you later.