WEBVTT

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Troy is one of my childhood friends. So back in school, they let you like skip math and science. And I thought I was smart. So they put me like one grade ahead. Troy was one of three kids in our class who was two grades ahead. So it's like I'm a fourth grader taking fifth grade math and science. Troy is taking sixth grade math and science. And he's a really smart dude, went to UPenn, double majored in finance and comp sci.

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Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Recently became a digital nomad. I think he might have settled. Says you're currently trying to settle down. Has his own startup working on a meditation app. Yeah. Really cool dude. Obviously very handsome. Look at him like styling over there. Has kept in shape. Like I have not kept in shape. I'm really fat and trying to get in shape. But Troy has maintained, you know, the gym life. I assume.

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I don't know. A little bit, a little bit. Wow, Frank, that what an intro. Thanks. Thanks so much for that. I can't believe you still remember the math thing in elementary school and middle school. Dude, like how could you not? You, Bryn and Alan. Yeah, you guys were like the three smartest kids in our class. Oh my gosh. Dang. I have no idea what happened to those guys, actually. Yeah, me neither. Like you still stay in touch with them?

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No, dude. I don't, I don't stay in touch with like anyone.

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Yeah. Yeah. Me neither, actually. Yeah. Well, thanks. Thanks for that, Frank. I'm glad to be here and glad that you, you reached out. We haven't caught up in, you know, four or five years now.

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And we always have very, very thought provoking conversations ranging from, you know, life. And I'm sure we'll talk more about parenting as that's something that my wife and I are thinking about too. And, you know, crypto and jobs and finance, personal finance. So yeah, always, always enjoy our chats.

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Yeah, dude, you better have kids soon. So our kids can be friends or else the age gap is going to be too big and it'll be weird.

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I know. That'll be awesome. But you live all the way across the country. So I don't know how it's going to work.

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Dude, metaverse. We're all going to be, you know, plugged in eventually. We'll be right next to each other.

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That's true. The first birthday present is going to be an Oculus Rift. Join the metaverse.

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Cool. Do you want to talk a little bit about your like career journey, first of all? So like, yeah, you know, the jobs you had after graduation, like job titling, like salaries and like just your journey to now, I guess.

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Cool. Definitely. Yeah, I would love to talk about my journey. I'll give a sort of high level overview because I've jumped around a lot, I think.

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And so there's a lot of, I guess, stories and pieces that we can dig into. But yeah, essentially, like you mentioned, I graduated UPenn, majored in computer science and finance, actually also concentrated in statistics.

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So that was my background. And right after graduating, I got a job at AQR, which is a quantitative hedge fund outside of New York City.

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So that's where I worked. I actually got an internship my junior year in college. So they brought me back after my internship.

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And yeah, I was a research analyst there, basically developing, you know, stock picking strategies.

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So, you know, doing a bunch of research into like what makes stock prices go up and down.

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You know, you have all these factors based on the actual company itself.

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And of course, what the market does, you have all these like quantitative factors, all this data, and you're basically crunching it to and then crunching it and applying statistical models to try and predict, you know, what will happen to those stocks in the future.

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So, yeah, you know, I thought that was pretty fun.

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I was actually only there for about a year.

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And yeah, so I guess I don't know what's the best way to do this.

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Do you want me to list my salary like right now or?

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Yeah, I guess just do the salary and then like your next salary, however you want to do it, really.

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Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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Yeah, I can I can just do that, that journey.

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So, so at AQR, my starting salary was 100K and I got a 40K bonus.

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So I was, you know, pretty happy to say the least as a new college grad.

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And then I was there for a year and then I actually left that hedge fund for a startup.

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It was only like four people or so at the time.

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And I actually joined as a software engineer.

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So it was kind of a kind of a switch.

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You know, it wasn't too technical on my position at AQR, but I was able to get a software engineer position there.

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But yeah, so at Bond Street, my salary initially I think was 80K or something like that.

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And then I got promoted and they bumped it up to like 95K.

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So I was at Bond Street for less than two years and then I decided to do freelancing.

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So I was just sick and tired of being, being a software engineer, actually.

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Like tried freelancing, did a bunch of random stuff from like, you know, full stack development to like data science type stuff.

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So over the year, I was basically break even in terms of my income and expenses.

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But I think on average, I charged $100 an hour.

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But like I actually spent a lot of the year just doing my own thing.

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So like I tried to start companies.

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Like I worked on different projects, ended up like TAing for a data science course at General Assembly.

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And then I got a job at Squarespace.

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So after that, I was like, okay, I have to get a job.

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I actually have to, you know, be a little serious about my career.

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So came in to Squarespace as a data analyst.

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And I think salary was like $105,000 or something and, you know, got some options and then eventually got promoted to data scientist after about a year.

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And my salary was $125,000, then left that after a couple years for Lyft.

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So, yeah, there was a bunch of like politics.

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And I guess every company deals with this.

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But like a lot of the data science team was disgruntled.

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And so a lot of us left.

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Yeah.

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So when I got to Lyft, my salary was $170,000.

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And I got, I think I got like around $40,000, $50,000 in RSUs per year, you know, over four years as a four-year grant.

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Obviously, that depended on the stock price of Lyft because Lyft was public at the time.

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But then I left Lyft, quit my job in March of 2020 and sort of decided to strike out on my own.

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So one of my side projects didn't really blow up, but it had a consistent base of users.

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And so I decided to monetize it.

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And that earned me enough revenue to feel confident quitting my job.

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And my wife was, my wife had also want, always wanted to do her own thing.

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And she's like, yeah, she's super talented in what she does.

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And I've always been telling her like, you know, why don't you just freelance or, you know, do consulting?

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Like people would pay you so much more for your services.

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Like she's really good at what she does.

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She does brand marketing.

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And so she also decided to freelance at the same time.

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So we both quit our jobs in March 2020 and started traveling the world while working at the same time.

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So went to a bunch of countries.

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And yeah, that's where the adventure, I guess, kind of leaves us.

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More recently, we stopped traveling and we decided to settle down in the Queens area, which is where my wife's family is from.

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So currently actually living at the in-law's house or her parents' house.

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But we're trying to buy a home, home in the area to start our family in, I guess.

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So, yeah.

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Very cool.

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So I have a ton of follow-up questions.

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Let's kind of start with data science.

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So like a lot of people want to know about data science.

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Can you go more into like what is data science?

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Like what are kind of skills you need?

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And then also like your story about like corporate politics and like why a lot of data sciences left Squarespace.

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Like that sounds pretty interesting, too.

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Yeah.

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So data science, I mean, data science is essentially using data to make better decisions.

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And so you can either data science is sort of split into two, I guess, segments right now.

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So there's like using data to help humans make better decisions.

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And then there's using data to help machines make better decisions.

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So, you know, I guess I'll start with the machine side.

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That's like, you know, more machine learning based.

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That's you're a lot more technical there.

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And you're oftentimes actually programming the algorithms or the machine learning algorithms.

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Like, you know, the recommendation engine at Netflix that that help, I guess, Netflix or the machine of Netflix make better movie recommendations.

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Whereas the other side of data science is helping humans make better decisions.

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And so that was the part that I was in mostly.

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And I would me personally, I would work with product managers to help them make better decisions about the product.

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Like, you know, what features to build or sort of what like users to target and, you know, maybe like how much you should how much of a coupon you should give to people.

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Right. In order to maximize total, total profit.

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And so, yeah, that was the side of data science that that I was on.

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But data science is really an interesting career because it's sort of like a combination of like math skills with I guess math more oriented towards statistics with like technical skills.

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So like computer science and like, you know, SQL programming as well as like communication and people skills because you're oftentimes presenting your data and like telling a story with your data to stakeholders.

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Could you go a little bit into like the difference between a data scientist, a data engineer, and like, I think there's like some other discipline that I remember is split into like three categories.

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Yeah, yeah. Different companies have different ways of of splitting it up, but I guess like so data engineer is someone who is more focused on the simply put the engineering side of data.

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So you're helping build like the data pipelines and the databases that that power data science essentially.

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And sometimes you do like a little dashboarding, but it's mainly you're actually building the, you know, the software that makes analyzing the data that makes using the data possible.

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Whereas data science is perhaps more about using the data.

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So as I mentioned before, like you can use the data to help people make better decisions.

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So like you're querying the database and you're putting together, you know, dashboards and, you know, presentations and, you know, to tell a story with the data.

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And then there's also the machine learning side of data science, which some companies have as like a separate role.

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Some companies don't, but like in that role, you're, you know, you're also using the, all the data in the database to build your models and make better predictions.

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Um, yeah.

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And then there's like software engineer, software engineering, like machine learning engineers, I guess they're called.

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Um, which I don't know, I guess is like, yeah, the same thing as like the, the part of data science where you help machines make better decisions.

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So some companies call it like data science algorithms, like you're on the algorithm side or like data science machine learning, like you're on the machine learning side of data science.

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Um, other companies call it like software engineering, um, machine learning, machine learning engineer, or like software engineering machine learning.

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Gotcha.

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So I thought it was pretty interesting how you were talking about how, like, there was a bunch of politics around the data science group.

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Um, because basically at every company I've worked at, the data science group is like kind of a mess in terms of like, Oh yeah.

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There's like some people who kind of seem like they know what's going on.

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Most people don't really seem like they know what's going on.

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Um, it's like all clearly very new.

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So they're like quote unquote best practices.

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There's no like arguably best way to do anything.

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There's new stuff coming out all the time.

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Exactly.

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There's like, everyone's arguing with each other.

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Um, everything's like broken half the time.

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Yeah.

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It's pissed off.

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Product is pissed off.

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Like they're like, why is it anything working?

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And everyone's just like blaming each other and just like stuff is messed up.

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Yeah.

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That's, that's exactly it.

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I mean, data science is, is still relatively new.

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And so, yeah, like you mentioned, you, you have all these problems essentially in data science.

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Like you have all these stakeholders, you know, relying on data science.

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I guess it's now, um, popular or whatever to, to be data oriented.

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So you have like marketing relying on data, you have product relying on data.

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Right.

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And, um, and, and data because there's, there's no best practices yet.

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Um, and even like the software is always changing.

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Like you mentioned, um, data is always broken.

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So like you're just stuck in this like broken pipeline as a data scientist.

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It actually reminded me of a comment someone made once where he's, he was a data engineer.

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And he was like, being a data engineer is the worst part about being in like this, this data science world.

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Because you're like the janitor, you're, you're just like, or the plumber, right?

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Like you're building all these pipelines, but like shit's breaking all the time.

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And you base at the end of the day, you're the, you're the one responsible for like fixing everything.

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And like the data scientists, they're, they're just using the data and they're, you know, they don't really care about like how it all actually works.

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But as a data engineer, you, you have to take care of that.

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So, um, but I think you do get paid pretty well as a data engineer.

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Um, don't get me wrong.

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It's a very intellectually stimulating career, um, and field.

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But one thing I remember thinking is like, I think data science is a mess because a lot of times data science isn't really treated as, as well as software is at companies.

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Um, which makes sense because, you know, you actually have to have the software to make the product work, um, or like the, you know, the product software, but, uh, you know, that software is producing a ton of data.

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And as your company gets bigger, that data becomes really useful and you start building out these teams like data science, machine learning to use that data for things.

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And, um, unfortunately I think like at that stage where data science becomes useful, like the company hasn't invested as much into the actual software behind that data.

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So the actual data engineering that makes all the data clean, like, you know, actually pipes the data into the right places.

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And, um, there's all these systems, right.

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That you need, uh, to, to make data easy to use.

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And I think like Airbnb has done a really good job of this.

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They're all always releasing like these awesome open source tools that make data much more easy to use and much more easy to, you know, to, to get into the right places.

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But it's not ideal, but I think it's, um, it makes the career really interesting.

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Cause you're, um, you're trying to always, you know, solve, solve problems and things are constantly changing.

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Um, you know, not only in terms of like the software, uh, or like what you're doing at the company, but also like, because your data is actually coming from the product and coming from the product.

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And coming from the users, like those are always changing as well.

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So, you know, your, your job description essentially is always changing and the projects you're working on is always changing.

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So you could be, you could go from like, you know, really heads down, like machine learning based project where you're trying to, um, you know, build a better model to, uh, to model LTV, like the lifetime value of a user.

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Right.

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And that's like very statistical and very quantitative.

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Um, but then the next project you get pulled in by the marketing team to, uh, to like analyze the user segment data that they have, or like some survey data that they collected from, from the users.

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Um, so that's like a much more, I don't know, like much more soft, uh, less technical type of data analysis that you're doing.

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That's a pretty good description.

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Um, and like the part you said where it's like, you're not directly working on the product.

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It's like people need to understand that, like the vast majority of the company is not explicitly working on a product unless it's like a very small startup company or a company that's like not further along.

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So like, yeah, most of the engineers, like there's a bunch of internal tooling.

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There's data science, like Troy talked about.

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Um, there's also like a lot of, typically there's products on the side of like, not just the consumer, but also the producer.

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So like from Grubhub standpoints, um, you have software, not only for like you, the end user to order food from, but then you also have a team just basically like a mini Uber.

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Like they got to build Uber for all the drivers.

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And then there's another team.

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They have to build all the software for all the restaurant people.

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Um, and then, as I already mentioned, like you have internal tooling.

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So you got to build tools for marketing and build tools for products.

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Um, and then there's like the infrastructure team.

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You're building tools for literally just the other engineers.

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So their job is easier.

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Um, and so it's like when people think of engineering, they might group it into like, Oh, front end, back end, like a full stack.

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But it's like the full picture is actually quite a bit more complicated.

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Um, the bigger in size that you get, like the bigger company is the more engineers you need just to like, even from the sense of like small efficiencies.

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So like when you're a small startup, one great engineering hire might be like a five X, 10 X efficiency.

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But when you're a behemoth, like Google, you're just trying to make sure that person has some value at all, like more than negative value.

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And that's a way just from the sheer scale of things.

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Right.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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If you're like working at a company now and you're not satisfied, like if you have the opportunity to, uh, to transfer within, or like you're at a big company, like there's so many other, um, potential teams and roles that you could, you could do at a company.

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Very cool.

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Um, can you go a bit more in depth on how much your, uh, side hustles are making you, um, you mentioned how you were kind of like going into full time.

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Cause there was enough revenue to stay in, like traveling around the world.

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I know like nowadays it's like people really kind of romanticize like, Oh, digital nomad life.

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Like let's go around and like, you know, quit our jobs and do whatever.

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Um, but it sounds like, you know, you actually had a plan going into it.

00:18:08.760 --> 00:18:12.760
Like you already had a business that you want to like ramp up the revenue and monetize.

00:18:12.760 --> 00:18:16.760
Um, so you're a bit further along than just like someone just quitting and yoloing.

00:18:18.760 --> 00:18:19.760
For sure.

00:18:19.760 --> 00:18:19.760
Yeah.

00:18:19.760 --> 00:18:21.760
It was a little bit ahead, although not that much ahead.

00:18:21.760 --> 00:18:23.760
It's a, it's a funny story.

00:18:23.760 --> 00:18:27.760
I had actually started Swift read in college.

00:18:27.760 --> 00:18:31.760
So I think it was like my junior or senior year in college, which was a long time ago.

00:18:31.760 --> 00:18:33.760
Um, now it's like eight years ago.

00:18:33.760 --> 00:18:38.760
Um, and I started it because I just wanted to, to read fast.

00:18:38.760 --> 00:18:39.760
Like I had so much to read.

00:18:39.760 --> 00:18:44.760
Um, I was taking all these business classes and like teachers would assign, you know, articles

00:18:44.760 --> 00:18:45.760
to read and whatnot.

00:18:45.760 --> 00:18:47.760
And I just love reading too.

00:18:47.760 --> 00:18:50.760
And I'd always like, you know, find random stuff to read online, but I just wanted to read

00:18:50.760 --> 00:18:51.760
faster.

00:18:51.760 --> 00:18:57.760
So I made this extension, um, helps you read faster using like this method of speed reading

00:18:57.760 --> 00:18:59.760
called rapid serial visual presentation.

00:18:59.760 --> 00:19:01.760
And it was really shitty back then.

00:19:01.760 --> 00:19:04.760
Uh, it was very basic, looked horrendous.

00:19:04.760 --> 00:19:08.760
Um, but for some reason people liked using it.

00:19:08.760 --> 00:19:11.760
And I guess it was because no other tool like this existed.

00:19:11.760 --> 00:19:12.760
So people liked using it.

00:19:12.760 --> 00:19:17.760
And then it got picked up by a bunch of media publications, like life hacker wrote about

00:19:17.760 --> 00:19:18.760
it.

00:19:18.760 --> 00:19:21.760
CNET wrote about it and then sort of exploded from there.

00:19:21.760 --> 00:19:22.760
I didn't really think much about it.

00:19:22.760 --> 00:19:23.760
I was like, okay, cool.

00:19:23.760 --> 00:19:28.760
I have this free product that helps people speed read and an okay number of users are using

00:19:28.760 --> 00:19:29.760
it regularly.

00:19:29.760 --> 00:19:32.760
Like my DAU numbers weren't that high at that point, I think.

00:19:32.760 --> 00:19:37.760
Um, so I just let it sit basically for, uh, seven years.

00:19:37.760 --> 00:19:39.760
I didn't do anything with it.

00:19:39.760 --> 00:19:44.760
Um, of course I improved upon the design and made it a lot more, uh, user friendly from

00:19:44.760 --> 00:19:45.760
the initial version.

00:19:45.760 --> 00:19:46.760
But other than that, I didn't do anything with it.

00:19:46.760 --> 00:19:49.760
I didn't really like add very many new features or anything.

00:19:49.760 --> 00:19:55.760
Um, I guess when I got to Lyft, um, I just, I don't know what happened.

00:19:55.760 --> 00:19:59.760
Uh, I just decided to try and monetize it because I was like, okay, there's like some opportunity

00:19:59.760 --> 00:20:00.760
here, right?

00:20:00.760 --> 00:20:05.760
It's not like this massive exponential growth opportunity, but it's also at least not dying.

00:20:05.760 --> 00:20:07.760
Like users aren't just forgetting about this.

00:20:07.760 --> 00:20:13.760
Um, actually it's funny when I left Lyft, someone said I was YOLOing essentially, like I

00:20:13.760 --> 00:20:14.760
was going to YOLO.

00:20:14.760 --> 00:20:20.760
Um, so at, at the point where I decided to quit was essentially where Swift read was,

00:20:20.760 --> 00:20:22.760
was ramen profitable for me.

00:20:22.760 --> 00:20:26.760
Um, so it was basically enough to cover my living expenses.

00:20:26.760 --> 00:20:31.760
And, you know, it wasn't, the revenue wasn't that much, but if I lived somewhere cheaper,

00:20:31.760 --> 00:20:37.760
like outside of Manhattan or even in other countries across the world, pretty much any other city

00:20:37.760 --> 00:20:41.760
in the world, um, then Swift read would be enough to cover my expenses.

00:20:41.760 --> 00:20:42.760
Nice.

00:20:42.760 --> 00:20:47.760
Um, and then you also said like you were working on several other projects and your main focus

00:20:47.760 --> 00:20:49.760
now is on like your meditation app.

00:20:49.760 --> 00:20:51.760
Uh, did you want to talk about that at all or?

00:20:51.760 --> 00:20:52.760
Yeah.

00:20:52.760 --> 00:20:53.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:20:53.760 --> 00:20:59.760
So, oh man, adventures of Troy always doing lots of different things and 80, 90% of them

00:20:59.760 --> 00:21:00.760
don't work out.

00:21:00.760 --> 00:21:03.760
But at least I learned a lot about myself in the process.

00:21:03.760 --> 00:21:08.760
So my meditation app was, uh, yeah, an idea that came to me as I was leaving Lyft.

00:21:08.760 --> 00:21:10.760
I was just like, what do I do next?

00:21:10.760 --> 00:21:16.760
Like, should I, um, I've monetized Swift read and like, I was like, okay, do I spend time

00:21:16.760 --> 00:21:17.760
time trying to grow Swift read?

00:21:17.760 --> 00:21:19.760
I didn't really have any ideas at that point.

00:21:19.760 --> 00:21:24.760
Cause I had like, I had thought I had, you know, monetized it most of the way.

00:21:24.760 --> 00:21:28.760
Like I did 20% of the work to, to get like 80% of the results.

00:21:28.760 --> 00:21:34.760
Um, I'd always been into meditation, had meditated since, since college as well, since like sophomore

00:21:34.760 --> 00:21:35.760
year in college.

00:21:35.760 --> 00:21:39.760
So that's like, I don't know, like, uh, 10 years or so.

00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:45.760
Um, and it's had a tremendous impact on my life, um, in many different ways.

00:21:45.760 --> 00:21:49.760
And I just wanted to give something back to the meditation community, I guess you could

00:21:49.760 --> 00:21:50.760
call it.

00:21:50.760 --> 00:21:54.760
And over the years I've used many different meditation apps and some of them are pretty

00:21:54.760 --> 00:21:55.760
good.

00:21:55.760 --> 00:21:59.760
Um, especially for beginners, there's lots of like very good beginner friendly meditation

00:21:59.760 --> 00:22:03.760
apps, but I wanted to build an app that had features that I specifically wanted.

00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:06.760
Um, and that I didn't really see any other meditation apps.

00:22:06.760 --> 00:22:09.760
So that was my idea with the meditation app.

00:22:09.760 --> 00:22:14.760
And I worked full time on it for maybe four months or so as I was traveling the world with,

00:22:14.760 --> 00:22:15.760
with, with my wife.

00:22:15.760 --> 00:22:18.760
Um, and that was a fun experience.

00:22:18.760 --> 00:22:23.760
Just building that out and sort of talking about a little bit on Twitter and like interviewing

00:22:23.760 --> 00:22:25.760
users for, for beta tests.

00:22:25.760 --> 00:22:31.760
Um, but I realized that my app had, uh, a lot of, a lot more development in if, if it was

00:22:31.760 --> 00:22:33.760
going to have any chance of like earning revenue.

00:22:33.760 --> 00:22:36.760
Um, and I needed to actually get it in front of people.

00:22:36.760 --> 00:22:41.760
So, um, yeah, I decided to like table it for swift read.

00:22:41.760 --> 00:22:45.760
Could you go a bit more in depth on the features that were missing that you were looking to build

00:22:45.760 --> 00:22:46.760
out?

00:22:46.760 --> 00:22:47.760
Yeah.

00:22:47.760 --> 00:22:48.760
Yeah.

00:22:48.760 --> 00:22:49.760
Yeah.

00:22:49.760 --> 00:22:50.760
Yeah.

00:22:50.760 --> 00:22:50.760
Yeah.

00:22:50.760 --> 00:22:50.760
Yeah.

00:22:50.760 --> 00:22:51.760
Yeah.

00:22:51.760 --> 00:22:52.760
Yeah.

00:22:52.760 --> 00:22:53.760
I do a lot of silent meditation.

00:22:53.760 --> 00:22:58.760
So not really listening to someone speak, um, or non guided meditation, I guess you could,

00:22:58.760 --> 00:22:59.760
you could say.

00:22:59.760 --> 00:23:06.760
Um, and so like a, a good timer was very, um, critical to me and there's some pretty good

00:23:06.760 --> 00:23:07.760
timers out there.

00:23:07.760 --> 00:23:11.760
So like that wasn't a differentiating feature, but I just wanted to make sure I had a good

00:23:11.760 --> 00:23:12.760
timer.

00:23:12.760 --> 00:23:15.760
And well, another thing I really like to do along with my meditation is journal.

00:23:15.760 --> 00:23:20.760
So I usually journal after I meditate just real quick, just writing down any thoughts or

00:23:20.760 --> 00:23:22.760
ideas that came to me.

00:23:22.760 --> 00:23:26.760
Many people think the goal of meditation is to completely clear your mind and not have any

00:23:26.760 --> 00:23:27.760
thoughts at all.

00:23:27.760 --> 00:23:30.760
And that is sometimes the end result.

00:23:30.760 --> 00:23:34.760
Forcing yourself not to have any thoughts creates more thoughts essentially.

00:23:34.760 --> 00:23:37.760
So I don't like force myself not to have thoughts.

00:23:37.760 --> 00:23:39.760
I don't force myself to have thoughts.

00:23:39.760 --> 00:23:42.760
I just let go and just let whatever happen happen.

00:23:42.760 --> 00:23:44.760
So sometimes I do get thoughts because of that.

00:23:44.760 --> 00:23:45.760
Sometimes I do get ideas because of that.

00:23:45.760 --> 00:23:48.760
So I like writing those down in a journal.

00:23:48.760 --> 00:23:50.760
And another one was like habit tracking.

00:23:50.760 --> 00:23:55.760
So I wanted to like see how much time I had been meditating for, but also see like on

00:23:55.760 --> 00:23:58.760
what days I meditated to see how like consistent I am over time.

00:23:58.760 --> 00:24:03.760
Um, and yeah, apps have like these features like meditation statistics and all that.

00:24:03.760 --> 00:24:07.760
But a lot of them are like hard to use and you can't really see at a glance, like how your

00:24:07.760 --> 00:24:10.760
meditation habit has been, um, at least the way I wanted it.

00:24:10.760 --> 00:24:14.760
So, um, I decided to, to build that in to my app as well.

00:24:15.760 --> 00:24:20.760
Um, and especially your part about like statistics, like people love to see, um, habit tracking

00:24:20.760 --> 00:24:21.760
and stuff.

00:24:21.760 --> 00:24:24.760
And then the last part about like a good timer.

00:24:24.760 --> 00:24:26.760
That's not something I really thought about.

00:24:26.760 --> 00:24:29.760
Um, like I'm pretty new meditation, meditator.

00:24:29.760 --> 00:24:31.760
Um, yeah.

00:24:31.760 --> 00:24:37.760
Like I, so I credit karma was really the first time I ever like did meditation in any meaningful

00:24:37.760 --> 00:24:38.760
way.

00:24:38.760 --> 00:24:41.760
And like, we, we also had like a yoga instructor.

00:24:41.760 --> 00:24:43.760
So she was yoga slash meditation.

00:24:43.760 --> 00:24:48.760
She would come in like four times a week, um, two times for yoga, two times for meditation.

00:24:48.760 --> 00:24:50.760
And like, I would always fall asleep.

00:24:50.760 --> 00:24:53.760
Cause like, it was just a very soothing.

00:24:53.760 --> 00:24:54.760
Yeah.

00:24:54.760 --> 00:24:59.760
Well, first of all, the room had like pillows and we would all be like lying down and like

00:24:59.760 --> 00:25:02.760
sometimes people would be like snoring cause like everyone just fell asleep.

00:25:03.760 --> 00:25:04.760
Um, I don't know.

00:25:04.760 --> 00:25:08.760
I thought it was good, but I never really kept up with it afterwards.

00:25:08.760 --> 00:25:13.760
It just kind of like, I read about all the health benefits and it definitely like, I hear

00:25:13.760 --> 00:25:16.760
a lot of anecdotes from people who are like, oh yeah, this is amazing.

00:25:16.760 --> 00:25:21.760
Um, yeah, but yeah, I, I've never been the most healthy person either like mentally or physically.

00:25:21.760 --> 00:25:25.760
So it's like, I should, I, it's one of those things where it's like, Hey, you know, you

00:25:25.760 --> 00:25:28.760
should not eat junk food and you know, you should exercise every day.

00:25:28.760 --> 00:25:33.760
You know, you should do like X, Y, Z, but then I just like, I don't do those things.

00:25:34.760 --> 00:25:39.760
You have other, other priorities, kids that'll definitely take time out of the day.

00:25:39.760 --> 00:25:39.760
Right.

00:25:39.760 --> 00:25:40.760
Yeah.

00:25:40.760 --> 00:25:44.760
Like, so everyone asked me, like ton of people ask me every single day, like, oh, you're,

00:25:44.760 --> 00:25:45.760
so you're like retired, right?

00:25:45.760 --> 00:25:46.760
Like, what do you do all day?

00:25:46.760 --> 00:25:47.760
You're just like completely free.

00:25:47.760 --> 00:25:49.760
Like, how are you occupying your time?

00:25:49.760 --> 00:25:50.760
You're so free.

00:25:50.760 --> 00:25:54.760
And people don't realize that like, even one kid is like more than a full-time job.

00:25:54.760 --> 00:26:00.760
You think that like, you think that it's basically this little person who is entirely dependent

00:26:00.760 --> 00:26:01.760
on you in every way.

00:26:01.760 --> 00:26:02.760
And they will literally die.

00:26:02.760 --> 00:26:09.760
If you leave them alone for like, I don't know one day, maybe like realistically, they

00:26:09.760 --> 00:26:11.760
just, they have no couple of days.

00:26:11.760 --> 00:26:13.760
A couple of days, they'll die from like thirst.

00:26:13.760 --> 00:26:16.760
But like, even in one day, say they like manage to get out of the house somehow, like they're

00:26:16.760 --> 00:26:17.760
going to run into traffic.

00:26:17.760 --> 00:26:18.760
Like they don't know anything.

00:26:18.760 --> 00:26:19.760
Yeah.

00:26:19.760 --> 00:26:24.760
So the thing I have heard from people though, is that like, every additional kid doesn't

00:26:24.760 --> 00:26:28.760
actually overload you that much because you already only have X hours of the day.

00:26:28.760 --> 00:26:32.760
So it's like, when you're already overloaded, you'll get slightly more overloaded.

00:26:32.760 --> 00:26:37.760
Um, but it's not like 2X the amount of work, but then other people I've also heard say like,

00:26:37.760 --> 00:26:39.760
oh, it's more than 2X the amount of work.

00:26:39.760 --> 00:26:42.760
Cause it's infinitely more stressful or something.

00:26:42.760 --> 00:26:46.760
But I feel like there's like a steady point where it's like, maybe when you have like six

00:26:46.760 --> 00:26:49.760
or seven kids, the oldest kid is now old enough to take care of the younger kids.

00:26:49.760 --> 00:26:50.760
Yeah.

00:26:50.760 --> 00:26:53.760
And it's like, you know, they're kind of raising themselves at that point.

00:26:53.760 --> 00:26:54.760
Yeah, exactly.

00:26:54.760 --> 00:26:58.760
They're raising themselves, just the chain of kids raising kids.

00:26:58.760 --> 00:26:59.760
Yeah.

00:26:59.760 --> 00:27:00.760
No, no, no.

00:27:00.760 --> 00:27:06.760
When you were talking about the meditation stuff, um, and sleeping at when you're, when

00:27:06.760 --> 00:27:09.760
you're meditating, that actually happens to a lot of people happen to me as well in the

00:27:09.760 --> 00:27:10.760
beginning.

00:27:10.760 --> 00:27:11.760
Like it's just so calming.

00:27:11.760 --> 00:27:15.760
And especially when you're lying down, it's so easy to fall asleep when you're meditating,

00:27:15.760 --> 00:27:17.760
which is, you know, not necessarily a bad thing.

00:27:17.760 --> 00:27:23.760
Like you're getting your rest, but, um, cause you know, meditation is different from napping

00:27:23.760 --> 00:27:24.760
and sleeping.

00:27:24.760 --> 00:27:30.760
Um, but it was funny because actually I used to meditate at AQR, like the hedge fund I worked

00:27:30.760 --> 00:27:31.760
at.

00:27:31.760 --> 00:27:36.760
Um, I would just meditate after lunch for 15 minutes sitting at my desk and people would

00:27:36.760 --> 00:27:39.760
walk by and they would like, you'd be like, what the heck is he doing?

00:27:39.760 --> 00:27:40.760
Like he has his eyes closed.

00:27:40.760 --> 00:27:41.760
He's sitting at his desk.

00:27:41.760 --> 00:27:42.760
Is he like taking a nap?

00:27:42.760 --> 00:27:49.760
And then at the end of the year, I found out that, so we, the company does like these funny

00:27:49.760 --> 00:27:51.760
awards for like people at the end of the year.

00:27:51.760 --> 00:27:57.760
Like, I don't know, like person who, uh, laughs the loudest or like, you know, person who like

00:27:57.760 --> 00:28:00.760
never pays attention in meetings, like call it superlatives.

00:28:00.760 --> 00:28:01.760
Right.

00:28:01.760 --> 00:28:03.760
And they give, they give these people fake trophies.

00:28:03.760 --> 00:28:10.760
Um, someone gave me, uh, sleeping, the sleeping beauty award because I was always sleeping after

00:28:10.760 --> 00:28:11.760
eating lunch.

00:28:11.760 --> 00:28:13.760
But, um, little did they know I was not sleeping.

00:28:13.760 --> 00:28:14.760
I was meditating.

00:28:14.760 --> 00:28:18.760
No one ever asked you like, Hey, like, what are you doing?

00:28:18.760 --> 00:28:21.760
And they didn't like ask to join or do anything.

00:28:21.760 --> 00:28:22.760
No.

00:28:22.760 --> 00:28:23.760
Yeah.

00:28:23.760 --> 00:28:24.760
No one else asked me to join or anything.

00:28:24.760 --> 00:28:29.760
They just like, I heard, I mean, um, people did ask me, they're like, what are you doing?

00:28:29.760 --> 00:28:33.760
Um, you know, sitting there at your desk with your eyes closed, but no one asked to join.

00:28:33.760 --> 00:28:38.760
I think that was, uh, yeah, before meditation really became popular.

00:28:38.760 --> 00:28:41.760
Actually, I started like a small meditation group at Lyft.

00:28:41.760 --> 00:28:44.760
Um, so we do like a daily meditation.

00:28:44.760 --> 00:28:50.760
Speaking of experiences, uh, what was your favorite part or like set of experiences you

00:28:50.760 --> 00:28:51.760
had while traveling around the world?

00:28:51.760 --> 00:28:53.760
Like digital nomad life.

00:28:53.760 --> 00:28:56.760
We basically did that for about nine months.

00:28:56.760 --> 00:29:00.760
And so we went to Taiwan, Spain and Portugal.

00:29:00.760 --> 00:29:08.760
Um, and so I would say my favorite experience, oh man, all those countries were great.

00:29:08.760 --> 00:29:10.760
And we spent like a month or two in each place.

00:29:10.760 --> 00:29:11.760
Okay.

00:29:11.760 --> 00:29:16.760
I guess we didn't like seriously get to know each country, but I felt like it was such a

00:29:16.760 --> 00:29:19.760
different experience from just going on vacation in these countries.

00:29:19.760 --> 00:29:22.760
Um, we got to try a lot of local food.

00:29:22.760 --> 00:29:27.760
Um, you know, I got to really understand what, what living there felt like.

00:29:27.760 --> 00:29:33.760
And even met some of the locals, sometimes language was always a barrier, but it just felt

00:29:33.760 --> 00:29:37.760
like, yeah, it just felt like, yeah, it just felt like you were a baby, right?

00:29:37.760 --> 00:29:40.760
Entering the world and like everything was brand new.

00:29:40.760 --> 00:29:43.760
Uh, just a brand new experience, no matter, no matter where you went.

00:29:43.760 --> 00:29:46.760
So, um, we loved all three places.

00:29:46.760 --> 00:29:50.760
I would say my favorite experience was Madeira, Portugal.

00:29:50.760 --> 00:29:56.760
So Madeira is this island off of the coast of Africa, um, which is part of Portugal.

00:29:56.760 --> 00:30:00.760
So Madeira, I think some people call the Hawaii of Europe.

00:30:00.760 --> 00:30:04.760
Um, they call a bunch of these islands, like Hawaii of Europe, but Madeira is one of them.

00:30:04.760 --> 00:30:08.760
So you have like tropical climates there on the island.

00:30:08.760 --> 00:30:11.760
You also have like desert and arid climates there.

00:30:11.760 --> 00:30:14.760
It's really interesting because there's tons of mountains on, on the island.

00:30:14.760 --> 00:30:15.760
It's a volcanic island.

00:30:15.760 --> 00:30:20.760
So basically you get like all four seasons on the island at the same time is, was what they say.

00:30:20.760 --> 00:30:27.760
So, um, it was just a beautiful island with all this lush greenery and, you know, tons of hiking, lots of outdoor activities.

00:30:27.760 --> 00:30:33.760
Um, but it was that coupled with like the modern life, modern European life.

00:30:33.760 --> 00:30:38.760
So we stayed in the capital, Funchal, um, which was like pretty much a modern European city.

00:30:38.760 --> 00:30:55.760
Like all the roads were like nicely paved and you had like, you know, the typical cobblestone, stone, like alleyways, um, like street, like sides of like, uh, behind the major roads with like the little restaurants and cafes and like everyone eating outside.

00:30:55.760 --> 00:31:02.760
And being able to live comfortably in a city while also being surrounded by such beautiful nature was, uh, was awesome.

00:31:02.760 --> 00:31:04.760
And like Portuguese people are amazing.

00:31:04.760 --> 00:31:06.760
And actually a lot of expats, uh, moved to Madeira.

00:31:06.760 --> 00:31:11.760
Like we met a lot of American expats, uh, some Chinese expats as well.

00:31:11.760 --> 00:31:16.760
Um, like people with, uh, with money from China who don't know where else to put it.

00:31:16.760 --> 00:31:20.760
So they moved to Madeira, Portugal, least favorite experience.

00:31:20.760 --> 00:31:21.760
Where do I start?

00:31:21.760 --> 00:31:33.760
Essentially we didn't do much research about Tenerife before we went, um, because we were in Taiwan at the time and Taiwan had gone into a lockdown because of COVID.

00:31:33.760 --> 00:31:37.760
And so we were just essentially desperate to get out of Taiwan cause there was nothing to do.

00:31:37.760 --> 00:31:43.760
Um, and so we saw that Spain was one of the only countries at the time in Europe that was open.

00:31:43.760 --> 00:31:50.760
And Tenerife was like this tropical looking island, um, off of the coast of Africa that was part of Spain.

00:31:50.760 --> 00:31:53.760
So we were like, okay, let's, let's go there maybe as our next destination.

00:31:53.760 --> 00:31:56.760
So we didn't really do too much research into Tenerife.

00:31:56.760 --> 00:31:59.760
Um, you know, we booked our Airbnb and got our tickets and whatnot.

00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:02.760
And we got to Tenerife, we weren't really prepared.

00:32:02.760 --> 00:32:08.760
Um, and then when we got there, we just had like these weird experiences with some of the locals.

00:32:08.760 --> 00:32:11.760
Um, we also got there at like 3:00 AM in the morning.

00:32:11.760 --> 00:32:14.760
So it was just like a bad time.

00:32:14.760 --> 00:32:22.760
And so like the weird experiences with locals was that like, when we got there, we got picked up by, um, a taxi that we had booked beforehand.

00:32:22.760 --> 00:32:30.760
And a taxi driver, you know, uh, drove us to our, uh, our Airbnb, but he drove to the wrong address.

00:32:30.760 --> 00:32:33.760
And we were like, actually, this is, this is the address.

00:32:33.760 --> 00:32:34.760
Do you know where it is?

00:32:34.760 --> 00:32:35.760
And he's like, oh yeah, don't worry.

00:32:35.760 --> 00:32:36.760
I know the right address.

00:32:36.760 --> 00:32:37.760
Like, you don't need to tell me.

00:32:37.760 --> 00:32:38.760
And he just kept going in circles.

00:32:38.760 --> 00:32:41.760
And I'm like, look, look, look at my phone.

00:32:41.760 --> 00:32:44.760
Like I'm literally showing you the address and it's not where you're going.

00:32:44.760 --> 00:32:45.760
And he's like, oh yeah, don't worry.

00:32:45.760 --> 00:32:47.760
I know about, I know, I know where you guys live.

00:32:47.760 --> 00:32:49.760
Like I've, I've been to that neighborhood before.

00:32:49.760 --> 00:32:52.760
And we, we just spent like 30 minutes on the road.

00:32:52.760 --> 00:32:53.760
I'm like, what is this guy doing?

00:32:53.760 --> 00:32:56.760
Like, does he not like believe me or something?

00:32:56.760 --> 00:32:57.760
Or yeah.

00:32:57.760 --> 00:33:00.760
So finally we got, we got through him and he drove us to the right address.

00:33:00.760 --> 00:33:05.760
Um, he's like, as we were getting out of the car, he was like, be careful about this neighborhood.

00:33:05.760 --> 00:33:10.760
Because, um, I used to, you know, drive people to this neighborhood like 20 years ago.

00:33:10.760 --> 00:33:15.760
And it was basically, I forgot what word he used, but he was like, it's basically, um, dangerous.

00:33:15.760 --> 00:33:18.760
Like there's, you know, it's like, you gotta be careful.

00:33:18.760 --> 00:33:19.760
You gotta put your money in front of you.

00:33:19.760 --> 00:33:22.760
Like, don't put your money behind you in like a backpack or something.

00:33:22.760 --> 00:33:25.760
He said, like, make sure your money is in front of you all the time.

00:33:25.760 --> 00:33:26.760
And we were like, holy crap.

00:33:26.760 --> 00:33:28.760
Like, is this like a sketchy neighborhood?

00:33:28.760 --> 00:33:29.760
It seems fine.

00:33:29.760 --> 00:33:31.760
And, you know, when we were doing our initial research, it seemed fine.

00:33:31.760 --> 00:33:33.760
We got there at like 4:00 AM in the morning.

00:33:33.760 --> 00:33:38.760
Um, once we got in the Airbnb, um, we thought it was fine.

00:33:38.760 --> 00:33:41.760
Like it was pretty well maintained and everything.

00:33:41.760 --> 00:33:44.760
And, um, the next day we decided to go out and do some grocery shopping.

00:33:44.760 --> 00:33:50.760
Um, and we tried to open the gate and we like the gate that we came in through and we literally

00:33:50.760 --> 00:33:51.760
could not open it.

00:33:51.760 --> 00:33:52.760
And it was like locked or something.

00:33:52.760 --> 00:33:56.760
And so we looked through all the keys and like looked through all the instructions and

00:33:56.760 --> 00:33:58.760
like tried all the keys and none of them worked.

00:33:58.760 --> 00:34:04.760
So we were like, oh my gosh, are we literally locked inside like this Airbnb complex on our

00:34:04.760 --> 00:34:05.760
first, first day?

00:34:05.760 --> 00:34:07.760
Uh, we can't even go grocery shopping.

00:34:07.760 --> 00:34:09.760
Like we don't have any groceries in the fridge.

00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:11.760
Like, oh, like what are we going to do?

00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:15.760
Um, so we contact the host and the host is like basically like blaming us.

00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:20.760
She's like, like it was a, it was a weekend and she was like, no one's working on the weekend.

00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:25.760
So, you know, it might be a couple of hours until someone gets to you, but I'll try my best.

00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:27.760
And we're like, dude, like you're, you're the host.

00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:29.760
Like you should, you should be apologizing.

00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:30.760
Like you didn't give us any instructions.

00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:32.760
You didn't give us the right keys.

00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:35.760
Like we have no way of getting out of this place basically.

00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:40.760
Um, and then the host actually told us about like a back door that we could get out of.

00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:43.760
And we were like, wow, like you did not tell us about this.

00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:46.760
Like you just caused us so much stress.

00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:50.760
Um, I just spiraled like all these bad experiences.

00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:56.760
I mean, they're not like that bad, but all these sort of, um, you know, slightly negative experiences,

00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:57.760
just wait on me a little bit.

00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:03.760
And that night actually, um, so beforehand we had booked a, like an excursion, uh, through

00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:08.760
Airbnb to this like volcano, this like inactive volcano.

00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:10.760
I think it is just local was taking us there.

00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:14.760
And, um, I had noticed that no, no one else was going on the tour.

00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:17.760
Like usually Airbnb shows you who else is going on the tour.

00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:21.760
And I just, you know, spiraled at that point because of all these things that have happened to us.

00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:27.760
Like we just had such, such a bad experience kind of like on our first few days in Tenerife.

00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:31.760
And then now we're going on a tour to the middle of the mountains with this local.

00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:34.760
And like, no one else is going on the tour.

00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:37.760
And it's like, oh my gosh, like, are we going to get robbed or something?

00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:38.760
Like, what if he just leaves us?

00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:39.760
Right.

00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:44.760
Like, like we also don't have, um, a SIM card that works locally and like, we can't call anyone.

00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:46.760
So I was just like, okay, let's cancel this.

00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:47.760
Let's cancel this tour.

00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:51.760
We just spent like the next couple of weeks on the beach.

00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:55.760
Luckily there's a beach next to us, uh, you know, working during the day and like going

00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:57.760
to the beach in the morning and the afternoons.

00:35:57.760 --> 00:35:58.760
And we didn't really do much.

00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:00.760
Um, oh man, that's pretty funny.

00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:05.760
Cause it's like most people now don't even remember the days before Uber and Lyft were ubiquitous.

00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:08.760
And it's like those taxi issues.

00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:10.760
That was kind of like the norm before.

00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:11.760
Yeah, exactly.

00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:12.760
People just try to scam you.

00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:15.760
It's like, they're like, oh yeah, I know where I'm going.

00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:20.760
Let me drive around in circles or like, one time I had this taxi driver.

00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:23.760
He literally filled up in gas while we were in the taxi.

00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:24.760
We're like, dude, what?

00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:25.760
Like, what are you doing?

00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:28.760
He's like, oh yeah, let me just, let me just grab some gas real quick.

00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:29.760
Um, I know.

00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:30.760
Oh my gosh.

00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:31.760
Yeah.

00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:34.760
We're so spoiled with, uh, all the technology here in the, in the U S.

00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:35.760
I don't know if this is true.

00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:41.760
Maybe you have more insight, but I saw that like, um, Uber and Lyft are not subsidizing a lot

00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:42.760
of their rides anymore.

00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:43.760
So like, they're trying to make money now.

00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:51.760
And so before, like when I was in SF in like 2016, 2017, it cost maybe like $5 to get across

00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:54.760
the town in like an Uber, um, a shared pool.

00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:59.760
Um, and like, if you wanted to be by yourself, it'd be like 10 to 15, but now it's like the

00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:01.760
price is more than doubled.

00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:04.760
It's like, they're just jacking it up across the board.

00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:05.760
Yeah.

00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:06.760
Yeah.

00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:07.760
I think that started when I was at Lyft too.

00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:09.760
Cause they went public and they just stopped giving.

00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:10.760
Yeah.

00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:11.760
They stopped subsidizing the rides.

00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:16.760
They stopped giving as many coupons and just ride prices went up and I wouldn't be surprised.

00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:17.760
Actually.

00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:17.760
Yeah.

00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:19.760
This would make sense if Uber and Lyft colluded, right?

00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:23.760
Cause if only one of them jacks up their prices, everyone's going to go to the other

00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:24.760
one.

00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:28.760
So, you know, they, they collude so that they can maximize both of their, uh, their revenue.

00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:30.760
Yeah, dude, I actually didn't even think about that.

00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:33.760
Like, I guess it's in both of their best interests.

00:37:33.760 --> 00:37:38.760
Cause like, even though Uber is crushing Lyft, it's like Lyft doesn't want to be subsidizing

00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:39.760
the rides either.

00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:44.760
And now that you've mentioned it, like I wouldn't be surprised if that is a thing.

00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:48.760
Uh, if anyone has connections with the justice department, look into them.

00:37:48.760 --> 00:37:51.760
You heard it here first, Uber and Lyft colluded.

00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:52.760
Oh my gosh.

00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:55.760
Not a good look for an ex Lyft employee.

00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:56.760
Ah, dude, who cares, dude?

00:37:56.760 --> 00:37:57.760
You're gone.

00:37:57.760 --> 00:37:58.760
They have no power over you.

00:37:58.760 --> 00:37:59.760
Yeah.

00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:00.760
Dude.

00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:01.760
I'm in the metaverse now.

00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:02.760
I'm on the blockchain.

00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:03.760
Yeah.

00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:04.760
Dude.

00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:05.760
What do you think about the metaverse?

00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:06.760
What's your take?

00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:07.760
I think there's opportunity.

00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:11.760
I think it's, um, it's still very early, very early days.

00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:12.760
I don't know.

00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:14.760
Are you like TikToking about the metaverse at all?

00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:15.760
Cause I saw this.

00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:21.760
I made a couple, like, I mean, I've made a bunch of TikToks and I think I made one specifically

00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:24.760
on metaverse and like a bunch of people asking about like NFTs and stuff.

00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:26.760
Um, but I usually don't like to repeat topics.

00:38:26.760 --> 00:38:30.760
And it's like TikTok is horrible for finding stuff.

00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:33.760
So like they have a playlist feature, but it's kind of shitty.

00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:36.760
Like their search function can't really work cause there's no titling.

00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:37.760
Yeah.

00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:38.760
So it's hard to find.

00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:40.760
Is Facebook's metaverse live right now?

00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:41.760
Or like, can you actually?

00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:43.760
So they have a couple of different like VR products.

00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:44.760
Yeah.

00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:48.760
So they have like their, all their Oculus offerings and then there's like various things in there

00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:50.760
that you can kind of quantify as a metaverse.

00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:55.760
And then I believe they also have like a teams like equivalent at this point.

00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:59.760
I don't know if that's live or not, but they have like a bunch of different stuff.

00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:00.760
Yeah.

00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:01.760
Yeah.

00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:04.760
So I guess I saw, um, the sexual harassment one.

00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:06.760
No, no, I didn't see that one.

00:39:06.760 --> 00:39:08.760
That one sounds, sounds interesting.

00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:12.760
But this TikTok exploded where this guy was just taping himself, I guess, using an Oculus

00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:15.760
in one of, you know, Oculus's worlds.

00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:21.760
And, um, he met this community person who worked full time, uh, in the metaverse.

00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:27.760
So he just spent his day like, you know, in this world, uh, or I guess in this Oculus world

00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:28.760
on his Oculus Rift.

00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:33.760
And he was getting paid a salary for being a community manager or something of this digital

00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:34.760
world.

00:39:34.760 --> 00:39:36.760
So, um, I guess that blew his mind.

00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:37.760
I can, that's kind of cool.

00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:41.760
Like, you know, your, your entire job is to be in the metaverse essentially.

00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:42.760
That would suck ass.

00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:44.760
Like it's not that comfortable.

00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:46.760
So like they have add ons for it.

00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:50.760
Um, like they have an elite strap and they have like some other thing basically to make

00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:51.760
it more comfortable.

00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:52.760
And they're super overpriced.

00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:55.760
It's like a hundred dollars for this like plastic strap.

00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:56.760
Yeah.

00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:58.760
But like, it's still not that comfortable.

00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:02.760
Like when I'm wearing that thing for more than like two or three hours, I like, I don't

00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:03.760
want to wear it anymore.

00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:04.760
Cause it's like hot.

00:40:04.760 --> 00:40:05.760
It's not breathable.

00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:06.760
Yeah.

00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:07.760
And it's still like, it's still weighs something.

00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:08.760
Yeah.

00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:10.760
There's like a huge ass thing on your face.

00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:12.760
Um, it looks uncomfortable.

00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:13.760
It's bearable, right?

00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:17.760
Like if you were playing a really fun game or really interesting experience or something,

00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:21.760
it's bearable, but like, it's nowhere near, like you can't spend, I mean, I guess technically

00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:24.760
you can spend eight hours in it or whatever, but like it's, it's miserable.

00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:29.760
Um, I think it's hilarious that a lot of tech executives who used to work at Facebook.

00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:30.760
They're like, Oh yeah, it's bad for you.

00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:31.760
Of course it's bad for you.

00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:32.760
But I'm like, dude, all right.

00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:33.760
You can say that now.

00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:34.760
Cause you're not working there anymore.

00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:38.760
You've made your money and you've like, you know, you, you, you already made it.

00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:42.760
You have, you've got your stock or whatever you were there when it was growing.

00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:45.760
And like, you obviously did not speak out while you were there.

00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:46.760
Cause you were like getting in the bag.

00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:47.760
Right.

00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:51.760
And now that they're out there, they have like this moral high stance of like, Oh yeah.

00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:52.760
Like, of course it's terrible.

00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:53.760
Like I don't support it.

00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:55.760
Like you guys can better watch out.

00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:56.760
It's like, dude, fuck you.

00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:59.760
Like you saying this now, like, okay, sure.

00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:05.760
You can still be right now, but like, clearly you profited from this machine, um, in like

00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:06.760
a very substantial way.

00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:09.760
So it's like, yeah, I don't know, man.

00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:11.760
You, you, they made it possible.

00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:17.760
And now they're just, uh, trying to absolve themselves of any, any wrongdoing, but, um,

00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:18.760
Okay.

00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:23.760
So, um, I don't, I haven't super looked deeply into this fact, but I kind of believe it's

00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:25.760
true, um, based on like the reasoning.

00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:32.760
So most people before and like previous generations, the older you get, the more rights leaning

00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:32.760
you become.

00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:34.760
So the more Republican you become.

00:41:34.760 --> 00:41:35.760
And this is there.

00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:40.760
The theory is that the reason this happens is because you've become more wealthy.

00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:43.760
So as you become more wealthy, you like get more selfish.

00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:45.760
You like start to look out for yourself.

00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:46.760
Like it all makes a lot of sense.

00:41:46.760 --> 00:41:47.760
It's like, Hey, I got mine.

00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:50.760
Like, yeah, screw you next generation type of deal.

00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:57.760
But like, it's not happening for millennials because millennials are not becoming wealthy.

00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:00.760
So like people now are poor compared to previous generations.

00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:07.760
And so the general, like overall group of people leans more left, um, because they're not rich.

00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:08.760
They haven't made it yet.

00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:09.760
Yeah.

00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:11.760
So like, I think that's really interesting.

00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:16.760
Um, and it's kind of interesting to see like what the Republican party is going to do.

00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:20.760
And especially because they've been like, they're getting super splintered right now.

00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:26.760
Cause like there's a really large group of hardcore Trump fans, but now DeSantis, like the party

00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:28.760
is trying to push him to be like the nominee.

00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:31.760
And like Trump hasn't decided to run yet against him.

00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:35.760
Um, but like if he did, he's going to like completely wreck the Republican party.

00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:38.760
I don't know how much, uh, politics stuff you follow.

00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:41.760
Not, not really none at all.

00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:44.760
Do you think that has influenced you at all?

00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:50.760
Like do you find yourself getting more conservative as your wealth increases, um, over the years?

00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:53.760
I don't like to label myself one side or the other.

00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:56.760
Like there are specific policies I'll agree with on both sides.

00:42:56.760 --> 00:43:01.760
Like I don't want to hold any viewpoint so strongly that I can't change it.

00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:02.760
So like, exactly.

00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:07.760
There's other than like math and physics and some things that I believe, like, if those things

00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:11.760
are, you know, changed, then my entire mind, I'll just be like, you know, I don't even

00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:12.760
know what to do with myself.

00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:17.760
But like, in terms of like other things, um, I don't think I hold such a strong belief

00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:22.760
in anything that I am not willing to add a bare minimum here, the other side of the story.

00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:29.760
So it's like, yeah, I think especially with media, um, it's like everyone's trying to paint

00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:30.760
a narrative.

00:43:30.760 --> 00:43:35.760
Everyone has some sort of ulterior motive, whether that's like, they're trying to get more clicks,

00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:39.760
more views, or they're trying to push their own political narrative for some sort of, you

00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:40.760
know what I'm trying to do with personal gain.

00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:41.760
Most likely.

00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:46.760
Um, it's like, it's hard to really find out like, what is the truth of something?

00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:47.760
Right.

00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:52.760
Cause it's like, you can hear two same, two people can read the exact same article and get completely

00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:53.760
different conclusions.

00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:54.760
And both of them might be valid.

00:43:54.760 --> 00:43:55.760
Right.

00:43:55.760 --> 00:43:59.760
It's like, depending on your life experiences, um, depending on like what your existing ideology

00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:04.760
is, like how it fits into your narrative and like who you are as a person.

00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:11.760
Um, so it's like the, one of the, my most recent TikToks that got like an insane number of like

00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:14.760
comment to, um, like view ratio.

00:44:14.760 --> 00:44:17.760
Like it had thousands, literally thousands of comments.

00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:21.760
I mean, like even right now people are probably like just fighting each other.

00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:23.760
So like dramatically.

00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:30.760
And I won't like go into detail for it, but it's like, I, I think humans just in general,

00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:35.760
we like to categorize things because it helps us simplify the world.

00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:37.760
So it's easy to put things into buckets.

00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:38.760
Yeah.

00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:40.760
Like most things are not black or white.

00:44:40.760 --> 00:44:43.760
They're like shades of gray and like, it's like a scale, right?

00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:44.760
So say like zero is here.

00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:45.760
One is here.

00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:48.760
It's not even just somewhere on the scale, but it's like a slider.

00:44:48.760 --> 00:44:49.760
Right.

00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:54.760
And it's like your sentiment can be anywhere on this scale or like, yeah, I don't know.

00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:59.760
I just think it's like, it's way more complex than being simply like, oh, you're a liberal

00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:01.760
or, oh, you're like a far right Republican.

00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:05.760
Cause it's like, humans are intelligent creatures.

00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:07.760
Like everyone can form their own thoughts.

00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:12.760
And like, I'm sure I'd be surprised if you can find any single person who agrees a hundred

00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:17.760
percent with either side on every single policy decision, because it's like, unless they're

00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:22.760
just like, you know, completely against like hitting the other side, which is also like, you

00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:23.760
know, not in their best interest.

00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:29.760
You want to be more like thoughtful, like everything that happens, you can't just listen to some

00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:33.760
greater authority or just like do things because that's what your party tells you.

00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:35.760
Because like, what's that saying?

00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:37.760
It's like, I think it's from men in black.

00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:40.760
It's like Will Smith was like, oh, you know, people are dumb.

00:45:40.760 --> 00:45:42.760
Like individuals are smart.

00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:43.760
People are dumb.

00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:46.760
They're like, or maybe it was like Tommy Lee who said that.

00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:51.760
I don't remember, but it's like, basically when you give up your critical thinking skills

00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:55.760
and just go along with the masses, like you're, you're doing yourself a disservice and you're

00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:56.760
doing others a disservice.

00:45:56.760 --> 00:46:01.760
Um, this is a really long winded way to say, like, I don't, uh, ascribe to like either

00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:02.760
political ideology.

00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:06.760
Cause I feel like that pigeons hold you, that pigeon holds you too much in terms of like,

00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:08.760
just separating like black or white.

00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:12.760
Cause it's like, yeah, it's more, it's much more complex than that.

00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:13.760
Yeah, absolutely.

00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:17.760
I agree a hundred percent with, with everything you said there.

00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:22.760
It was, it's interesting that like, just like even black and white technically are like shades

00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:23.760
of gray, right?

00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:26.760
Um, like it's just a continuum.

00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:32.760
And when do you really get from like a shade of gray to black?

00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:33.760
Like what is the dividing point?

00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:34.760
Right?

00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:37.760
Like it's like the, it's like the, the, the number line, right?

00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:42.760
Like you can go infinitely deep into, um, into a number.

00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:45.760
Like when do you actually, like, if you keep dividing the number line by half, right?

00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:49.760
Like when do you actually get to, um, get to something solid?

00:46:49.760 --> 00:46:57.760
And I think like critical thinking is, is such an important skill, um, in the, in the modern world.

00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:04.760
And with, with social media and with all this polarization, um, of like these, these two political parties.

00:47:04.760 --> 00:47:08.760
And, and even, even in the world, it's like us versus, it's always us versus them.

00:47:08.760 --> 00:47:14.760
It's like us versus China or, um, you know, this, this party versus this other party.

00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:27.760
And I think, um, yeah, when you're, when you label yourself like that, or when you start seeing yourself as part of that, that category, that group, that like giant collective, then yeah, you're, you're giving up your, your freedom.

00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:32.760
You're giving up your own individual ideas and thoughts and your own creativity and your own potential.

00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:41.760
Like you said, like you're doing a disservice for society because you're just giving up all your, your individual potential, um, for this, for this collective.

00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:42.760
And yeah.

00:47:42.760 --> 00:47:53.760
And like the point about, um, the us first, us versus them, I think like just as humans, because when you really break it down, we're just, we're a really smart animal, but we're still animal.

00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:59.760
Like we have hundreds of millions of years of evolution that have programmed us to think in a certain way.

00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:10.760
Um, and it's like, we still have a lot of biases and like internal assumptions that are, that just don't service that well anymore.

00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:22.760
And it's like, when you think of being a part of a tribe and I, I may be getting some of these, a lot of this information from like a book called like tribe and the loss of family or something like that.

00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:22.760
Okay.

00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:35.760
But it's like before, when you think about like a tribe back in the olden days, um, when you, when you mess up, like when you're a bad actor in a tribe, you get kicked out and you die.

00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:36.760
Yeah.

00:48:36.760 --> 00:48:40.760
So like your, your penalty for being a asshole is death.

00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:43.760
So that kind of weeds out a lot of people who are bad actors.

00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:44.760
And like, sure.

00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:50.760
You might be like really skilled in some way in terms of like manipulation or like covering for yourself.

00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:53.760
But like the general rule of thumb is like, you had to contribute to your tribe.

00:48:53.760 --> 00:49:00.760
You had to be like a somewhat respectable member of society, um, in order to like continue living to pass on your genetics.

00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:01.760
Yeah.

00:49:01.760 --> 00:49:14.760
But nowadays it's like, there's very, very little chance that you'll die just from assuming you're in like a rich country with modern healthcare and like sure there's all sorts of ways you can die.

00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:28.760
But like in general, like our life expectancy and just like the general rate of you being alive is, is much more likely than before when you had, when we did have modern medicine, uh, didn't have like reliable shelter, reliable food source, et cetera.

00:49:28.760 --> 00:49:32.760
And so now it's like the modern kind of tribe.

00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:34.760
So like Google where you call yourself a new blur and a Googler.

00:49:34.760 --> 00:49:39.760
And a lot of these terms are actually how you like form a cult.

00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:44.760
And so like Google versus Facebook, like Facebook was always saying like, Oh yeah, Google's the enemy.

00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:46.760
Like we have to beat them, et cetera, et cetera.

00:49:46.760 --> 00:49:49.760
And it helps to like reinforce this like sense of identity.

00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:51.760
Like, Oh, I am a, I am a Googler.

00:49:51.760 --> 00:49:55.760
Like these are my values and they have like motivational posters and shit.

00:49:55.760 --> 00:50:09.760
And it's like, I think it's all like, I don't know if it's subtle or not so subtle forms of manipulation, but like, even if you're a bad actor and like say you get kicked out of company, like it doesn't really matter anymore because like we don't know how to hire.

00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:13.760
Well, and so a lot of people look at resume, they look at experience, uh, if I look at connections.

00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:23.760
And so regardless if you like screw over your company or like, if you are really bad worker, like that, you can overcome that a lot of times just by being good at interviewing.

00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:32.760
Um, but the point I was kind of trying to make before I got into the cult stuff was like, you can be a really bad actor.

00:50:32.760 --> 00:50:34.760
Like you can be a shitty person these days.

00:50:34.760 --> 00:50:37.760
And like, you might not get punished.

00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:39.760
Like there's a good chance you won't get punished.

00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:43.760
Um, even going to the extremes of like, um, going against societal norms.

00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:47.760
Right. So like society, we think of like, okay, they have these laws to uphold here.

00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:50.760
They have these rules for being a quote unquote good citizen.

00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:55.760
Um, but then a lot of laws are written by the like oligarchy, right?

00:50:55.760 --> 00:50:58.760
They're written by the upper class and it's like laws.

00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:04.760
If you think about them, if the penalty for a law is a fine, then it basically means it's only a penalty for poor people.

00:51:04.760 --> 00:51:07.760
Cause if you're a rich person, like no one cares about fines.

00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:11.760
I think there was like a famous story about like Bezos or Zuckerberg, one of these tech executives.

00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:14.760
They just got like tens of thousands in parking tickets.

00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:19.760
Cause they like either didn't have a license or didn't have like a license plate or like never paid the parking fees.

00:51:19.760 --> 00:51:20.760
Cause they're like, yeah, fuck this.

00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:21.760
Right. Like I'm rich.

00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:22.760
I'll just, I'll just deal with the fines.

00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:25.760
And like, this is, this means nothing to me.

00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:29.760
Um, and there's only like one country that does it as a percentage of your income.

00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:38.760
So I'm like probably Nordic country or like Sweden or something where they're like, all right, if you get like a speeding ticket, we're going to, we're going to ticket you like 5% of your total salary.

00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:41.760
It's not that high, but it's still like a percentage.

00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:42.760
So it's like rich people.

00:51:42.760 --> 00:51:46.760
It's like, okay, if you're rich, you can't just randomly break the law and get a slap on the wrist.

00:51:46.760 --> 00:51:47.760
Like you're going to feel the pain.

00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:48.760
Like you're making 10 million.

00:51:48.760 --> 00:51:50.760
We're going to find you a hundred thousand dollars or something.

00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:51.760
Yeah.

00:51:51.760 --> 00:51:52.760
Yeah.

00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:54.760
No, that's, I think that's, that's a great point.

00:51:54.760 --> 00:51:58.760
I think like, like laws and fines, you know, they're, they're good.

00:51:58.760 --> 00:52:05.760
And I think necessary, um, for society, you know, humans are, uh, are dumb sometimes.

00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:08.760
So you got to have those laws to, to incentivize the right actions.

00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:17.760
But I think like at the end of the day, we need morals as, as you were saying, like, you could still do bad things and a lot of times get away with it in society.

00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:20.760
And so I think we, we need morals.

00:52:20.760 --> 00:52:29.760
And, and when I say need, I don't mean, I'm not, you know, trying to sit, I'm not trying to preach or be like, you know, everyone needs to, needs to learn what's good or bad or anything.

00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:33.760
I think like, so, so like what really matters in life, right?

00:52:33.760 --> 00:52:41.760
Like you can do bad stuff or you can do kind of shady stuff to, to get ahead in life and make as much money as possible or, you know, get what you want.

00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:47.760
But like at the end of the day or at the end of the life, like you're going to look back and are you going to be, are you going to be satisfied with that?

00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:51.760
Are you going to be fully, you know, happy or at peace with your life that you lived a good life?

00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:58.760
I don't know, maybe some people are, maybe psychopaths will be, but for most people, I feel like they won't be.

00:52:58.760 --> 00:53:06.760
And so there has to be something else that, that allows us to, to feel fulfilled as we're living life.

00:53:06.760 --> 00:53:14.760
And with morals that comes with empathy and like listening to others and yeah, being a less, less judgmental person.

00:53:14.760 --> 00:53:32.760
And there's just all these, all these benefits. Right. And yeah, I think that's, that's a perspective that actually like came to me as I was meditating and also getting a little bit more into spirituality and like reading about Buddhism and, and that sort of thing.

00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:39.760
And yeah, I think like you've articulated all that stuff pretty well, even though you, you said you didn't really meditate, which is fine.

00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:44.760
Like you don't have to meditate to, to understand all that, but.

00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:48.760
Correct me if I'm like completely butchering this, but like the origins of Buddhism.

00:53:48.760 --> 00:53:53.760
So like Buddha himself, he was like this rich, like very pampered Indian prince or something.

00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:57.760
And so one day he's like, Oh man, I want to like enlighten myself.

00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:00.760
I want to like find out what it's like to be part of the people.

00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:04.760
So he goes on like this very hedonistic.

00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:05.760
Am I saying that word right?

00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:06.760
Yeah.

00:54:06.760 --> 00:54:13.760
Journey where he tries to like deny himself of all pleasures, live among the people, like give away all this stuff, meditate for a long ass time.

00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:16.760
And then he like somehow achieves this enlightenment.

00:54:16.760 --> 00:54:18.760
And then he starts to like spread the teachings.

00:54:18.760 --> 00:54:20.760
Like, did I get the basic points, right?

00:54:20.760 --> 00:54:21.760
Or like, what am I missing?

00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:24.760
Or like, what points would you want to add there?

00:54:24.760 --> 00:54:26.760
Yeah, that's basically it.

00:54:26.760 --> 00:54:37.760
I mean, that's my basic understanding is, yeah, he, you know, he's this rich guy who has everything he wants, but then he leaves his palace and sees sick people and sees, you know, poor people.

00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:45.760
And, you know, he just realizes that the world has so much suffering and he wants to better understand that.

00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:53.760
And so, yeah, he like basically leaves all his riches behind and goes off to meditate and like contemplate these things.

00:54:53.760 --> 00:54:58.760
And, you know, miraculously, he gets he understands everything.

00:54:58.760 --> 00:55:03.760
And, yeah, he, you know, he wants to spread those teachings.

00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:17.760
And I think Buddhism generally, and also, you know, aspects of Hinduism, they just, yeah, they just get at a lot of the, I don't know how to put it.

00:55:17.760 --> 00:55:29.760
I just feel like they're, they feel like they resonate with me the most and probably maybe with you the most if we were to pick amongst the religions, like the teachings that resonate with you the most.

00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:35.760
I would say include like the Eastern religions, like Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism as well.

00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:37.760
And I think there's something there.

00:55:37.760 --> 00:55:40.760
Like, I think they maybe not captured the complete truth.

00:55:40.760 --> 00:55:48.760
I don't think anyone can, but they've they've gotten at it, I think, better than other modern reincarnations of the other religions.

00:55:49.760 --> 00:56:01.760
Yeah, the so like I was raised, I don't know if you were raised this way, but like in Iowa back when we were like, you know, doing whatever, like all the families, they were, you know, baptized Christians.

00:56:01.760 --> 00:56:04.760
And we had like went to that church and played basketball.

00:56:04.760 --> 00:56:12.760
Yeah, but like, you know, none of us really believe maybe some people did, but we just went there because our parents went there, you know, eat some potluck food.

00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:20.760
And it wasn't really until junior year of high school where I took AP world history that I really learned about a lot of different religions.

00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:32.760
So like I would go to church sometimes and I would go to like, I forget what you call it, but basically it was like a youth thing where they would have like a sermon and you like eat food and play games or whatever.

00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:49.760
So I just did it because like other people did it, but then in junior high school AP world history learning about all these different sorts of religion because like I knew nothing about Judaism or like, yeah, what it meant to be a Muslim or just general like what was going on in the world up until this point.

00:56:49.760 --> 00:57:02.760
And I think I don't want to get too much into religion, but the one part that I thought was very interesting is like basically all these old texts, they all reference like a really great flood that happened.

00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:16.760
And so it's like, it's not just Christianity or like this flood and like the ark and that stuff that's, you know, that's whatever, but like in various religious texts were just like general history, like they talk about this giant flood.

00:57:16.760 --> 00:57:27.760
So it's like, okay, that part's probably real, like some sort of flood happened and probably fucked a lot of shit up that like, you know, who knows if it is the whole world, but it was probably a lot of the world at that time.

00:57:27.760 --> 00:57:28.760
And I thought that was really interesting.

00:57:28.760 --> 00:57:40.760
But like, yeah, man, history is so interesting because like, it's so many things are cyclical, like that you don't even realize, like all these, like even modern day trends or even not even that modern, like you can do it.

00:57:40.760 --> 00:57:42.760
You don't have to go back that far to see a lot of these trends.

00:57:42.760 --> 00:57:45.760
And like, I think it's becoming more popular nowadays.

00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:53.760
Like people have written more books that have gotten some amounts of public recognition in terms of like, here's like some modern economic cycle theory.

00:57:53.760 --> 00:58:04.760
Here are some of like the, I guess mostly economics is what's being focused on, but in terms of like fall and rise of societies, that kind of stuff is super interesting.

00:58:04.760 --> 00:58:12.760
And yeah, like if I didn't have to worry about money, I would have majored in history and psychology because even those like, they don't make any money at all.

00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:22.760
But it's just so interesting to learn about because it's like, I think people focus a lot on like the here and now and like we have all this data now and like everyone's trying to make all these insights.

00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:37.760
But even it's like the best, the people with the best data and the best software and the best tools still very rarely can predict the future in like meaningful ways outside of like very specific things like the weather or like, which we figured out a long time ago.

00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:44.760
But in terms of like more macroeconomic trends or more like, you know, fall and rise of societies.

00:58:44.760 --> 00:58:55.760
And as an aside, there was like this one document that was released that was supposedly made by the KGB.

00:58:55.760 --> 00:59:03.760
It was like, okay, here's our like plan to basically weaken the West in terms of like, here's our, here's our game plan.

00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:08.760
Here's how we're going to make Russia rise up and like screw up Britain and the US and whatever.

00:59:08.760 --> 00:59:11.760
And they've actually accomplished a lot of things on this list.

00:59:11.760 --> 00:59:14.760
I heard it was like, one of them was like separate Britain from the rest of Europe.

00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:17.760
So like Brexit happened.

00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:24.760
Another one was like incite nationalism in the United States to like polarize the left and right, which is happening slash happened.

00:59:24.760 --> 00:59:29.760
I forget what else was on this list, but it's like, this is made a long time ago.

00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:32.760
Like, I don't know the fifties sixties or something.

00:59:32.760 --> 00:59:37.760
And if you look at like the actual checklist of these events, a lot of them have come to fruition.

00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:39.760
So who knows if like, that's still a thing.

00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:45.760
If like Putin is like this, you know, evil mastermind in the background, or like that just kind of happened naturally.

00:59:45.760 --> 00:59:46.760
I don't know.

00:59:46.760 --> 00:59:47.760
Yeah.

00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:48.760
Yeah.

00:59:48.760 --> 00:59:49.760
It's super interesting.

00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:50.760
I wonder.

00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:51.760
Yeah.

00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:52.760
I wonder how much influence they had.

00:59:52.760 --> 00:59:53.760
They had on that.

00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:54.760
Exactly.

00:59:54.760 --> 00:59:58.760
Like, or if it just happens naturally and maybe they, they learned from the past, right?

00:59:58.760 --> 01:00:05.760
Like they learned what happened to, to other empires or societies that fell and they, they baked that into their plan.

01:00:05.760 --> 01:00:13.760
And, you know, even though the KGB went defunct, like it still just happened just because of history and because everything in history is cyclical.

01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:22.760
Um, so back during like the 2008 recession, uh, Facebook was like, okay, maybe we want to like raise some money and just have some sort of like war chest.

01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:24.760
Um, and all the investors were being kind of skittish.

01:00:24.760 --> 01:00:27.760
So they didn't give Facebook like the terms that it wanted.

01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:39.760
Um, and Facebook was offering like pretty, you know, fair terms for a lot of these investors and investors were just trying to like penny pitch them in terms of like, okay, well, we don't want to like give you that much money at X valuation or whatever.

01:00:39.760 --> 01:00:41.760
And so Russia comes in, right?

01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:44.760
And this is where things get a little conspiracy theory ask.

01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:51.760
So Russia comes in and they're like, all right, we'll just give you, they offer them a much better deal than they wanted for no board seats.

01:00:51.760 --> 01:00:53.760
And Facebook was for, they're like, what?

01:00:53.760 --> 01:00:54.760
Like, this is crazy.

01:00:54.760 --> 01:00:55.760
Like what's, what's the catch?

01:00:55.760 --> 01:00:56.760
Is this legit?

01:00:56.760 --> 01:00:58.760
Is this like some sort of like mob money?

01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:00.760
Like, is this check going to clear?

01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:03.760
Um, the check did clear and they got the money.

01:01:03.760 --> 01:01:16.760
But then ever since that happened, it's like, okay, well now one of the largest tech companies in the world, well, it wasn't back then, but like one of the most influential companies, um, like has all this money from Russia.

01:01:16.760 --> 01:01:18.760
Um, like, you know, they don't really know the source.

01:01:18.760 --> 01:01:20.760
They know that the check was good and it cleared.

01:01:20.760 --> 01:01:25.760
Um, and like, I actually got this from the, this anecdotal story from the all in podcast.

01:01:25.760 --> 01:01:34.760
I'm probably like telling it wrong in some way, but the story was like the, um, one of the hosts, he actually met with that Russian dude.

01:01:34.760 --> 01:01:41.760
Uh, I don't know if he's like a monster or just like a normal businessman or whatever, but he's like, oh, like, how come you didn't ask for a board seat?

01:01:41.760 --> 01:01:44.760
Like the, you know, they would have given you one easily.

01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:44.760
Right.

01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:54.760
And it was like the Russian guy responds with like, you do not need board seats for influence saying, saying, basically saying like, yeah, like it doesn't matter if you have a board seat or not.

01:01:54.760 --> 01:01:57.760
Like we're, we're fucking like going to influence these things regardless.

01:01:57.760 --> 01:01:58.760
Yeah.

01:01:58.760 --> 01:02:09.760
Um, if you remember when Obama was debating Romney and Mitt Romney was like the greatest threat to American democracy right now is Russia.

01:02:09.760 --> 01:02:11.760
And like Obama just like made fun of him.

01:02:11.760 --> 01:02:15.760
And like, he got so much shit for saying that everyone was like giving him grief.

01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:16.760
Me like written on me.

01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:17.760
You're a fricking, you're an idiot.

01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:18.760
Like you're a conspiracy theorist.

01:02:18.760 --> 01:02:19.760
Like Russia.

01:02:19.760 --> 01:02:23.760
Like, no dude, we're like, no, they're not a thing anymore.

01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:25.760
They felt like they're not, we're America.

01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:26.760
Right.

01:02:26.760 --> 01:02:27.760
Like Russia has nothing on us.

01:02:27.760 --> 01:02:28.760
And now look at modern day.

01:02:28.760 --> 01:02:30.760
It's like, oh shit, Russia maybe does have something on us.

01:02:30.760 --> 01:02:32.760
There's, there's a lot of sketchy things happening.

01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:39.760
There's a lot of money flows, but it's almost like people are not as against Russia anymore either.

01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:41.760
Like they seem to be more against China now.

01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:45.760
Um, but I think that also has to do with like the rise of China and the fall of Russia economically.

01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:50.760
So like maybe if Russia was more powerful, they would get more hate.

01:02:50.760 --> 01:02:51.760
Um, but like, I don't know.

01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:53.760
I think the whole like global relations stuff.

01:02:53.760 --> 01:03:00.760
I don't know if us like plebs will ever know the full picture or not, or maybe 20 to 30 years when they release all this stuff.

01:03:00.760 --> 01:03:05.760
But like, there's a lot of stuff going on in the background that we have no idea about.

01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:11.760
And it involves lots of money and lots of power, lots of dirt on powerful people.

01:03:11.760 --> 01:03:26.760
I hope that one day, you know, 10 years, 20 years from now, there's like a Netflix special or like a who documentary or something where it shows like a glimpse into these dealings of the super elites of the rich.

01:03:26.760 --> 01:03:29.760
Cause it's like, you'll hear comedians talk about it.

01:03:29.760 --> 01:03:30.760
Some rich people will talk about it.

01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:31.760
They'll be like, oh yeah.

01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:33.760
You know, there is this cabal of this.

01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:37.760
Like, you know, they're not evil necessarily, but they're just like the secret society.

01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:46.760
Maybe like a hundred men, a hundred really old men that control the entire world in terms of like owning all the media or like having all this influence or whatever.

01:03:46.760 --> 01:03:53.760
I wouldn't be surprised if it felt either way, if this was just like completely false, but also if it was true, I'd be like, yeah, I could, I could see that.

01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:54.760
I could see that.

01:03:54.760 --> 01:03:55.760
Yeah.

01:03:55.760 --> 01:03:58.760
Just like the stuff coming up, coming out of like that, the Epstein case.

01:03:58.760 --> 01:03:59.760
Right.

01:03:59.760 --> 01:04:04.760
And yeah, you know, all this, all this stuff about the, the really rich and really powerful.

01:04:04.760 --> 01:04:08.760
Um, and yeah, we, we probably won't ever see that.

01:04:08.760 --> 01:04:12.760
And we'll just have to live with whatever influences they're, they're generating.

01:04:12.760 --> 01:04:15.760
Cause they're definitely generating a lot of influences, right?

01:04:15.760 --> 01:04:18.760
Like they're owning these social media companies, media companies in general.

01:04:18.760 --> 01:04:21.760
And, you know, they're owning everything we use probably.

01:04:21.760 --> 01:04:28.760
And, um, there's just a ton of money with like tons of, uh, uh, incentives behind that.

01:04:28.760 --> 01:04:29.760
Right.

01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:34.760
Just like, and we're just, we're just plebeians just being pushed around by the wind.

01:04:34.760 --> 01:04:40.760
And I think that brings us back to your point about how important critical thinking is and

01:04:40.760 --> 01:04:47.760
about how important, I guess, individual freedom and thinking for yourself is because like, you

01:04:47.760 --> 01:04:49.760
can't control what happens outside of there.

01:04:49.760 --> 01:04:52.760
Like you can't control what happens outside of your mind.

01:04:52.760 --> 01:04:55.760
You know, what goes on in social media, what goes on in the world.

01:04:55.760 --> 01:05:02.760
Um, you know, what, what event or what war China and the U S might get into or whatever, like, we're

01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:04.760
just, we're just little people.

01:05:04.760 --> 01:05:08.760
And so the best we can do is, um, is control how we react to it.

01:05:08.760 --> 01:05:15.760
Like, you know, we have this input of all these things happening outside like war or like media, things

01:05:15.760 --> 01:05:20.760
on media, things on social media, things that incite anger and, you know, hatred.

01:05:20.760 --> 01:05:25.760
Um, and I think once that gets in, gets into us, we have this ability to think critically

01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:26.760
about it.

01:05:26.760 --> 01:05:32.760
We have this ability to become aware of it and, um, you know, and, and judge it and, um, determine

01:05:32.760 --> 01:05:35.760
if that's something that we want to hold for ourselves or not.

01:05:35.760 --> 01:05:42.760
Um, and just live our own happy lives, oblivious to all the things going on in the background.

01:05:42.760 --> 01:05:49.760
Um, knowledge is, uh, oh, I guess ignorance is bliss for sure.

01:05:49.760 --> 01:05:53.760
I really love how you tied that all the way back to our previous conversation, Troy.

01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:56.760
And I think at this point we're nearing, we're like over two hours or something.

01:05:56.760 --> 01:05:59.760
Um, so I think that's a good point to end the podcast.

01:05:59.760 --> 01:06:06.760
Um, for our viewers out for listeners or viewers out there, what is some advice you would give

01:06:06.760 --> 01:06:11.760
someone say, who's just starting out either their college career or a young person in their

01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:12.760
twenties.

01:06:12.760 --> 01:06:15.760
Uh, and what's a good book recommendation you have for everyone.

01:06:15.760 --> 01:06:21.760
In terms of advice, I would just bring it back to a lot of what we talked about around thinking

01:06:21.760 --> 01:06:23.760
for yourself essentially in critical thinking.

01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:29.760
I think, um, it's very easy, especially when you're young to get stuck in what society wants,

01:06:29.760 --> 01:06:30.760
what your parents want.

01:06:30.760 --> 01:06:35.760
Um, you know, the paths that are laid out in front of you, like, okay, I get this degree.

01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:36.760
I get this job.

01:06:36.760 --> 01:06:41.760
I become promoted or like, you know, stay within this, this industry and, you know, make more

01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:42.760
money, right.

01:06:42.760 --> 01:06:46.760
We've got to, got to make more money to buy that house or to, to have enough money for

01:06:46.760 --> 01:06:47.760
retirement, right.

01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:48.760
Put money in your 401k.

01:06:48.760 --> 01:06:51.760
All these things are things that people tell us.

01:06:51.760 --> 01:06:56.760
Um, but I think it's, you know, you can definitely use follow, follow these paths to your advantage,

01:06:56.760 --> 01:07:00.760
but it's also important to think for yourself and think about what, what you really want out

01:07:00.760 --> 01:07:01.760
of life.

01:07:01.760 --> 01:07:08.760
Um, and, and, uh, to always have that in mind as you are going through, through life and

01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:09.760
trying different things.

01:07:09.760 --> 01:07:16.760
Um, I think one thing that I've learned that I think has helped me, but has definitely not

01:07:16.760 --> 01:07:19.760
been easy is all the experimentation I've done.

01:07:19.760 --> 01:07:21.760
So I've jumped around to so many different jobs.

01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:24.760
Maximum, I spent like two years at a single job.

01:07:24.760 --> 01:07:26.760
Most jobs, I only stayed at a year or so.

01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:30.760
Um, and I've always done little side projects in the past.

01:07:30.760 --> 01:07:36.760
And one of them has been enough for me to, uh, quit my job with, or has generated enough

01:07:36.760 --> 01:07:37.760
revenue for me to quit my job with.

01:07:37.760 --> 01:07:44.760
And all that is born out of, uh, you know, constant experimentation with like, what kinds

01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:46.760
of things do I like doing?

01:07:46.760 --> 01:07:48.760
What kind of impact do I want to have on the world?

01:07:48.760 --> 01:07:55.760
Um, and I'm nowhere near where I guess I think this can take me, but, um, I don't think

01:07:55.760 --> 01:08:00.760
I don't think I would have gotten there without constant experimentation and constant learning

01:08:00.760 --> 01:08:05.760
and just, um, thinking for myself and, and trying to, to find the truth, right.

01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:13.760
Uh, with, with that experimentation, um, in terms of book recommendations, I would say, well,

01:08:13.760 --> 01:08:18.760
one book I'm really liking right now and pretty much finished it, but it's so good that I want

01:08:18.760 --> 01:08:24.760
to go back to it many times is called adult children of emotionally immature parents.

01:08:24.760 --> 01:08:32.760
Um, seems kind of like a serious, you know, scary topic, but I, yeah, I guess like growing

01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:35.760
up, I never had the best relationship with, with my parents.

01:08:35.760 --> 01:08:40.760
And I feel like a lot of immigrant families or children of immigrants may, may feel similarly,

01:08:40.760 --> 01:08:46.760
you know, they're coming from this country that often has a lot of turmoil and, um, you

01:08:46.760 --> 01:08:51.760
know, a lot of poverty and you're, you're coming to America, which has so much opportunity, but

01:08:51.760 --> 01:08:52.760
you're just so focused on surviving.

01:08:52.760 --> 01:08:56.760
You're so focused on providing for your family and providing the best opportunity for your

01:08:56.760 --> 01:08:57.760
family.

01:08:57.760 --> 01:09:04.760
Because of that, perhaps the children don't develop as, uh, as emotionally or, um, don't

01:09:04.760 --> 01:09:09.760
develop emotional maturity as, as you might want in an ideal childhood environment.

01:09:09.760 --> 01:09:15.760
So I feel like this book has shed a ton of light on not only why I

01:09:15.760 --> 01:09:22.760
why I do certain things, um, and why I behave, but also on why my parents behave and how that

01:09:22.760 --> 01:09:23.760
has influenced me.

01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:28.760
And also on how I might be able to, um, in a sense, repair my relationship with them, which

01:09:28.760 --> 01:09:36.760
is my ultimate goal, um, to cultivate that relationship with them, but also relationship with, with everyone

01:09:36.760 --> 01:09:37.760
else.

01:09:37.760 --> 01:09:42.760
Um, you know, like all my friends and, and future family and my future kids.

01:09:42.760 --> 01:09:46.760
So I think this book is like, just like opening my eyes to all of that.

01:09:46.760 --> 01:09:50.760
Because before I thought, okay, like, this is just how I'm wired or like, you know, my parents will,

01:09:50.760 --> 01:09:51.760
will do whatever they do.

01:09:51.760 --> 01:09:54.760
And like, there's no like real reason for it.

01:09:54.760 --> 01:09:57.760
Or maybe that was, you know, how they were raised, but I didn't really connect the dots.

01:09:57.760 --> 01:09:58.760
Basically.

01:09:58.760 --> 01:10:01.760
Um, and I didn't really see how one would influence the other.

01:10:01.760 --> 01:10:06.760
Um, and I think this book has, has helped me a lot, uh, in terms of like connecting the dots

01:10:06.760 --> 01:10:11.760
and like being able to communicate more effectively with my parents, but also everyone else that

01:10:11.760 --> 01:10:12.760
I come into contact with.

01:10:12.760 --> 01:10:18.760
Um, and I think, yeah, being able to do that just allows you to, you know, express your true

01:10:18.760 --> 01:10:20.760
talents, um, more fully.

01:10:20.760 --> 01:10:25.760
And as we mentioned before, like attain your, your full potential as an individual.

01:10:26.760 --> 01:10:31.760
Um, and I think, yeah, just like seeing those hidden relationships, seeing those hidden patterns

01:10:31.760 --> 01:10:36.760
in like the relationships that you had with your, your parents is, is very difficult, but it's, uh,

01:10:36.760 --> 01:10:39.760
it's some rewarding work that you, that you can do.

01:10:40.760 --> 01:10:41.760
Very cool.

01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:43.760
I think I've actually heard of that book somewhere before.

01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:44.760
I might've like seen it on Reddit.

01:10:44.760 --> 01:10:47.760
Um, but I'll give that a read now as well.

01:10:47.760 --> 01:10:48.760
That sounds pretty good.

01:10:48.760 --> 01:10:49.760
Um, very cool.

01:10:49.760 --> 01:10:50.760
All right.

01:10:50.760 --> 01:10:52.760
Well, thank you, Troy for joining us.

01:10:52.760 --> 01:10:53.760
And yeah.

01:10:53.760 --> 01:10:54.760
And thank you for having me on Frank.

01:10:54.760 --> 01:10:55.760
Yeah.

01:10:55.760 --> 01:10:58.760
Just happy to be here and happy to chat with you, Frank and catch up again.