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Troy is one of my childhood friends. So back in school, they let you like skip math and science. And I thought I was smart. So they put me like one grade ahead. Troy was one of three kids in our class who was two grades ahead. So it's like I'm a fourth grader taking fifth grade math and science. Troy is taking sixth grade math and science. And he's a really smart dude, went to UPenn, double majored in finance and comp sci.

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Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Recently became a digital nomad. I think he might have settled. Says you're currently trying to settle down. Has his own startup working on a meditation app. Yeah. Really cool dude. Obviously very handsome. Look at him like styling over there. Has kept in shape. Like I have not kept in shape. I'm really fat and trying to get in shape. But Troy has maintained, you know, the gym life. I assume.

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I don't know. A little bit, a little bit. Wow, Frank, that what an intro. Thanks. Thanks so much for that. I can't believe you still remember the math thing in elementary school and middle school. Dude, like how could you not? You, Bryn and Alan. Yeah, you guys were like the three smartest kids in our class. Oh my gosh. Dang. I have no idea what happened to those guys, actually. Yeah, me neither. Like you still stay in touch with them?

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No, dude. I don't, I don't stay in touch with like anyone.

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Yeah. Yeah. Me neither, actually. Yeah. Well, thanks. Thanks for that, Frank. I'm glad to be here and glad that you, you reached out. We haven't caught up in, you know, four or five years now.

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And we always have very, very thought provoking conversations ranging from, you know, life. And I'm sure we'll talk more about parenting as that's something that my wife and I are thinking about too. And, you know, crypto and jobs and finance, personal finance. So yeah, always, always enjoy our chats.

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Yeah, dude, you better have kids soon. So our kids can be friends or else the age gap is going to be too big and it'll be weird.

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I know. That'll be awesome. But you live all the way across the country. So I don't know how it's going to work.

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Dude, metaverse. We're all going to be, you know, plugged in eventually. We'll be right next to each other.

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That's true. The first birthday present is going to be an Oculus Rift. Join the metaverse.

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Cool. Do you want to talk a little bit about your like career journey, first of all? So like, yeah, you know, the jobs you had after graduation, like job titling, like salaries and like just your journey to now, I guess.

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Cool. Definitely. Yeah, I would love to talk about my journey. I'll give a sort of high level overview because I've jumped around a lot, I think.

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And so there's a lot of, I guess, stories and pieces that we can dig into. But yeah, essentially, like you mentioned, I graduated UPenn, majored in computer science and finance, actually also concentrated in statistics.

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So that was my background. And right after graduating, I got a job at AQR, which is a quantitative hedge fund outside of New York City.

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So that's where I worked. I actually got an internship my junior year in college. So they brought me back after my internship.

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And yeah, I was a research analyst there, basically developing, you know, stock picking strategies.

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So, you know, doing a bunch of research into like what makes stock prices go up and down.

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You know, you have all these factors based on the actual company itself.

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And of course, what the market does, you have all these like quantitative factors, all this data, and you're basically crunching it to and then crunching it and applying statistical models to try and predict, you know, what will happen to those stocks in the future.

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So, yeah, you know, I thought that was pretty fun.

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I was actually only there for about a year.

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And yeah, so I guess I don't know what's the best way to do this.

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Do you want me to list my salary like right now or?

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Yeah, I guess just do the salary and then like your next salary, however you want to do it, really.

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Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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Yeah, I can I can just do that, that journey.

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So, so at AQR, my starting salary was 100K and I got a 40K bonus.

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So I was, you know, pretty happy to say the least as a new college grad.

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And then I was there for a year and then I actually left that hedge fund for a startup.

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It was only like four people or so at the time.

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And I actually joined as a software engineer.

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So it was kind of a kind of a switch.

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You know, it wasn't too technical on my position at AQR, but I was able to get a software engineer position there.

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But yeah, so at Bond Street, my salary initially I think was 80K or something like that.

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And then I got promoted and they bumped it up to like 95K.

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So I was at Bond Street for less than two years and then I decided to do freelancing.

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So I was just sick and tired of being, being a software engineer, actually.

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Like tried freelancing, did a bunch of random stuff from like, you know, full stack development to like data science type stuff.

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So over the year, I was basically break even in terms of my income and expenses.

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But I think on average, I charged $100 an hour.

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But like I actually spent a lot of the year just doing my own thing.

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So like I tried to start companies.

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Like I worked on different projects, ended up like TAing for a data science course at General Assembly.

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And then I got a job at Squarespace.

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So after that, I was like, okay, I have to get a job.

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I actually have to, you know, be a little serious about my career.

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So came in to Squarespace as a data analyst.

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And I think salary was like $105,000 or something and, you know, got some options and then eventually got promoted to data scientist after about a year.

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And my salary was $125,000, then left that after a couple years for Lyft.

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So, yeah, there was a bunch of like politics.

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And I guess every company deals with this.

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But like a lot of the data science team was disgruntled.

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And so a lot of us left.

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Yeah.

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So when I got to Lyft, my salary was $170,000.

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And I got, I think I got like around $40,000, $50,000 in RSUs per year, you know, over four years as a four-year grant.

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Obviously, that depended on the stock price of Lyft because Lyft was public at the time.

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But then I left Lyft, quit my job in March of 2020 and sort of decided to strike out on my own.

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So one of my side projects didn't really blow up, but it had a consistent base of users.

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And so I decided to monetize it.

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And that earned me enough revenue to feel confident quitting my job.

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And my wife was, my wife had also want, always wanted to do her own thing.

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And she's like, yeah, she's super talented in what she does.

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And I've always been telling her like, you know, why don't you just freelance or, you know, do consulting?

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Like people would pay you so much more for your services.

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Like she's really good at what she does.

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She does brand marketing.

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And so she also decided to freelance at the same time.

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So we both quit our jobs in March 2020 and started traveling the world while working at the same time.

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So went to a bunch of countries.

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And yeah, that's where the adventure, I guess, kind of leaves us.

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More recently, we stopped traveling and we decided to settle down in the Queens area, which is where my wife's family is from.

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So currently actually living at the in-law's house or her parents' house.

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But we're trying to buy a home, home in the area to start our family in, I guess.

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So, yeah.

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Very cool.

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So I have a ton of follow-up questions.

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Let's kind of start with data science.

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So like a lot of people want to know about data science.

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Can you go more into like what is data science?

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Like what are kind of skills you need?

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And then also like your story about like corporate politics and like why a lot of data sciences left Squarespace.

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Like that sounds pretty interesting, too.

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Yeah.

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So data science, I mean, data science is essentially using data to make better decisions.

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And so you can either data science is sort of split into two, I guess, segments right now.

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So there's like using data to help humans make better decisions.

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And then there's using data to help machines make better decisions.

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So, you know, I guess I'll start with the machine side.

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That's like, you know, more machine learning based.

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That's you're a lot more technical there.

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And you're oftentimes actually programming the algorithms or the machine learning algorithms.

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Like, you know, the recommendation engine at Netflix that that help, I guess, Netflix or the machine of Netflix make better movie recommendations.

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Whereas the other side of data science is helping humans make better decisions.

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And so that was the part that I was in mostly.

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And I would me personally, I would work with product managers to help them make better decisions about the product.

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Like, you know, what features to build or sort of what like users to target and, you know, maybe like how much you should how much of a coupon you should give to people.

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Right. In order to maximize total, total profit.

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And so, yeah, that was the side of data science that that I was on.

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But data science is really an interesting career because it's sort of like a combination of like math skills with I guess math more oriented towards statistics with like technical skills.

101
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So like computer science and like, you know, SQL programming as well as like communication and people skills because you're oftentimes presenting your data and like telling a story with your data to stakeholders.

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Could you go a little bit into like the difference between a data scientist, a data engineer, and like, I think there's like some other discipline that I remember is split into like three categories.

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Yeah, yeah. Different companies have different ways of of splitting it up, but I guess like so data engineer is someone who is more focused on the simply put the engineering side of data.

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So you're helping build like the data pipelines and the databases that that power data science essentially.

105
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And sometimes you do like a little dashboarding, but it's mainly you're actually building the, you know, the software that makes analyzing the data that makes using the data possible.

106
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Whereas data science is perhaps more about using the data.

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So as I mentioned before, like you can use the data to help people make better decisions.

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So like you're querying the database and you're putting together, you know, dashboards and, you know, presentations and, you know, to tell a story with the data.

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And then there's also the machine learning side of data science, which some companies have as like a separate role.

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Some companies don't, but like in that role, you're, you know, you're also using the, all the data in the database to build your models and make better predictions.

111
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Um, yeah.

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And then there's like software engineer, software engineering, like machine learning engineers, I guess they're called.

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Um, which I don't know, I guess is like, yeah, the same thing as like the, the part of data science where you help machines make better decisions.

114
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So some companies call it like data science algorithms, like you're on the algorithm side or like data science machine learning, like you're on the machine learning side of data science.

115
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Um, other companies call it like software engineering, um, machine learning, machine learning engineer, or like software engineering machine learning.

116
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Gotcha.

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So I thought it was pretty interesting how you were talking about how, like, there was a bunch of politics around the data science group.

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Um, because basically at every company I've worked at, the data science group is like kind of a mess in terms of like, Oh yeah.

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There's like some people who kind of seem like they know what's going on.

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Most people don't really seem like they know what's going on.

121
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Um, it's like all clearly very new.

122
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So they're like quote unquote best practices.

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There's no like arguably best way to do anything.

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There's new stuff coming out all the time.

125
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Exactly.

126
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There's like, everyone's arguing with each other.

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Um, everything's like broken half the time.

128
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Yeah.

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It's pissed off.

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Product is pissed off.

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Like they're like, why is it anything working?

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And everyone's just like blaming each other and just like stuff is messed up.

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Yeah.

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That's, that's exactly it.

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I mean, data science is, is still relatively new.

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And so, yeah, like you mentioned, you, you have all these problems essentially in data science.

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Like you have all these stakeholders, you know, relying on data science.

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I guess it's now, um, popular or whatever to, to be data oriented.

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So you have like marketing relying on data, you have product relying on data.

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Right.

141
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And, um, and, and data because there's, there's no best practices yet.

142
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Um, and even like the software is always changing.

143
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Like you mentioned, um, data is always broken.

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So like you're just stuck in this like broken pipeline as a data scientist.

145
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It actually reminded me of a comment someone made once where he's, he was a data engineer.

146
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And he was like, being a data engineer is the worst part about being in like this, this data science world.

147
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Because you're like the janitor, you're, you're just like, or the plumber, right?

148
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Like you're building all these pipelines, but like shit's breaking all the time.

149
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And you base at the end of the day, you're the, you're the one responsible for like fixing everything.

150
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And like the data scientists, they're, they're just using the data and they're, you know, they don't really care about like how it all actually works.

151
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But as a data engineer, you, you have to take care of that.

152
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So, um, but I think you do get paid pretty well as a data engineer.

153
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Um, don't get me wrong.

154
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It's a very intellectually stimulating career, um, and field.

155
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But one thing I remember thinking is like, I think data science is a mess because a lot of times data science isn't really treated as, as well as software is at companies.

156
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Um, which makes sense because, you know, you actually have to have the software to make the product work, um, or like the, you know, the product software, but, uh, you know, that software is producing a ton of data.

157
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And as your company gets bigger, that data becomes really useful and you start building out these teams like data science, machine learning to use that data for things.

158
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And, um, unfortunately I think like at that stage where data science becomes useful, like the company hasn't invested as much into the actual software behind that data.

159
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So the actual data engineering that makes all the data clean, like, you know, actually pipes the data into the right places.

160
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And, um, there's all these systems, right.

161
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That you need, uh, to, to make data easy to use.

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And I think like Airbnb has done a really good job of this.

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They're all always releasing like these awesome open source tools that make data much more easy to use and much more easy to, you know, to, to get into the right places.

164
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But it's not ideal, but I think it's, um, it makes the career really interesting.

165
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Cause you're, um, you're trying to always, you know, solve, solve problems and things are constantly changing.

166
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Um, you know, not only in terms of like the software, uh, or like what you're doing at the company, but also like, because your data is actually coming from the product and coming from the product.

167
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And coming from the users, like those are always changing as well.

168
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So, you know, your, your job description essentially is always changing and the projects you're working on is always changing.

169
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So you could be, you could go from like, you know, really heads down, like machine learning based project where you're trying to, um, you know, build a better model to, uh, to model LTV, like the lifetime value of a user.

170
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Right.

171
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And that's like very statistical and very quantitative.

172
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Um, but then the next project you get pulled in by the marketing team to, uh, to like analyze the user segment data that they have, or like some survey data that they collected from, from the users.

173
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Um, so that's like a much more, I don't know, like much more soft, uh, less technical type of data analysis that you're doing.

174
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That's a pretty good description.

175
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Um, and like the part you said where it's like, you're not directly working on the product.

176
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It's like people need to understand that, like the vast majority of the company is not explicitly working on a product unless it's like a very small startup company or a company that's like not further along.

177
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So like, yeah, most of the engineers, like there's a bunch of internal tooling.

178
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There's data science, like Troy talked about.

179
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Um, there's also like a lot of, typically there's products on the side of like, not just the consumer, but also the producer.

180
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So like from Grubhub standpoints, um, you have software, not only for like you, the end user to order food from, but then you also have a team just basically like a mini Uber.

181
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Like they got to build Uber for all the drivers.

182
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And then there's another team.

183
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They have to build all the software for all the restaurant people.

184
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Um, and then, as I already mentioned, like you have internal tooling.

185
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So you got to build tools for marketing and build tools for products.

186
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Um, and then there's like the infrastructure team.

187
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You're building tools for literally just the other engineers.

188
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So their job is easier.

189
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Um, and so it's like when people think of engineering, they might group it into like, Oh, front end, back end, like a full stack.

190
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But it's like the full picture is actually quite a bit more complicated.

191
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Um, the bigger in size that you get, like the bigger company is the more engineers you need just to like, even from the sense of like small efficiencies.

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So like when you're a small startup, one great engineering hire might be like a five X, 10 X efficiency.

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But when you're a behemoth, like Google, you're just trying to make sure that person has some value at all, like more than negative value.

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And that's a way just from the sheer scale of things.

195
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Right.

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Right.

197
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Yeah.

198
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If you're like working at a company now and you're not satisfied, like if you have the opportunity to, uh, to transfer within, or like you're at a big company, like there's so many other, um, potential teams and roles that you could, you could do at a company.

199
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Very cool.

200
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:52,760
Um, can you go a bit more in depth on how much your, uh, side hustles are making you, um, you mentioned how you were kind of like going into full time.

201
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Cause there was enough revenue to stay in, like traveling around the world.

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I know like nowadays it's like people really kind of romanticize like, Oh, digital nomad life.

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Like let's go around and like, you know, quit our jobs and do whatever.

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Um, but it sounds like, you know, you actually had a plan going into it.

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Like you already had a business that you want to like ramp up the revenue and monetize.

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Um, so you're a bit further along than just like someone just quitting and yoloing.

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For sure.

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Yeah.

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It was a little bit ahead, although not that much ahead.

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It's a, it's a funny story.

211
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I had actually started Swift read in college.

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So I think it was like my junior or senior year in college, which was a long time ago.

213
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Um, now it's like eight years ago.

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Um, and I started it because I just wanted to, to read fast.

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Like I had so much to read.

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Um, I was taking all these business classes and like teachers would assign, you know, articles

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to read and whatnot.

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And I just love reading too.

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And I'd always like, you know, find random stuff to read online, but I just wanted to read

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faster.

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So I made this extension, um, helps you read faster using like this method of speed reading

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called rapid serial visual presentation.

223
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And it was really shitty back then.

224
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Uh, it was very basic, looked horrendous.

225
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Um, but for some reason people liked using it.

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And I guess it was because no other tool like this existed.

227
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So people liked using it.

228
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And then it got picked up by a bunch of media publications, like life hacker wrote about

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it.

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CNET wrote about it and then sort of exploded from there.

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I didn't really think much about it.

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I was like, okay, cool.

233
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I have this free product that helps people speed read and an okay number of users are using

234
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it regularly.

235
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Like my DAU numbers weren't that high at that point, I think.

236
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Um, so I just let it sit basically for, uh, seven years.

237
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I didn't do anything with it.

238
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Um, of course I improved upon the design and made it a lot more, uh, user friendly from

239
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the initial version.

240
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But other than that, I didn't do anything with it.

241
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I didn't really like add very many new features or anything.

242
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:55,760
Um, I guess when I got to Lyft, um, I just, I don't know what happened.

243
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,760
Uh, I just decided to try and monetize it because I was like, okay, there's like some opportunity

244
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here, right?

245
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It's not like this massive exponential growth opportunity, but it's also at least not dying.

246
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Like users aren't just forgetting about this.

247
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:13,760
Um, actually it's funny when I left Lyft, someone said I was YOLOing essentially, like I

248
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was going to YOLO.

249
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Um, so at, at the point where I decided to quit was essentially where Swift read was,

250
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was ramen profitable for me.

251
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Um, so it was basically enough to cover my living expenses.

252
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And, you know, it wasn't, the revenue wasn't that much, but if I lived somewhere cheaper,

253
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like outside of Manhattan or even in other countries across the world, pretty much any other city

254
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in the world, um, then Swift read would be enough to cover my expenses.

255
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Nice.

256
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:47,760
Um, and then you also said like you were working on several other projects and your main focus

257
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now is on like your meditation app.

258
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Uh, did you want to talk about that at all or?

259
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:52,760
Yeah.

260
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:53,760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

261
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So, oh man, adventures of Troy always doing lots of different things and 80, 90% of them

262
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don't work out.

263
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But at least I learned a lot about myself in the process.

264
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:08,760
So my meditation app was, uh, yeah, an idea that came to me as I was leaving Lyft.

265
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I was just like, what do I do next?

266
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Like, should I, um, I've monetized Swift read and like, I was like, okay, do I spend time

267
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time trying to grow Swift read?

268
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I didn't really have any ideas at that point.

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Cause I had like, I had thought I had, you know, monetized it most of the way.

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Like I did 20% of the work to, to get like 80% of the results.

271
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Um, I'd always been into meditation, had meditated since, since college as well, since like sophomore

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year in college.

273
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So that's like, I don't know, like, uh, 10 years or so.

274
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Um, and it's had a tremendous impact on my life, um, in many different ways.

275
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And I just wanted to give something back to the meditation community, I guess you could

276
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call it.

277
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And over the years I've used many different meditation apps and some of them are pretty

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good.

279
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Um, especially for beginners, there's lots of like very good beginner friendly meditation

280
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apps, but I wanted to build an app that had features that I specifically wanted.

281
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Um, and that I didn't really see any other meditation apps.

282
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So that was my idea with the meditation app.

283
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And I worked full time on it for maybe four months or so as I was traveling the world with,

284
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with, with my wife.

285
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Um, and that was a fun experience.

286
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Just building that out and sort of talking about a little bit on Twitter and like interviewing

287
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users for, for beta tests.

288
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Um, but I realized that my app had, uh, a lot of, a lot more development in if, if it was

289
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going to have any chance of like earning revenue.

290
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Um, and I needed to actually get it in front of people.

291
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So, um, yeah, I decided to like table it for swift read.

292
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,760
Could you go a bit more in depth on the features that were missing that you were looking to build

293
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:46,760
out?

294
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:47,760
Yeah.

295
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:48,760
Yeah.

296
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:49,760
Yeah.

297
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:50,760
Yeah.

298
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:50,760
Yeah.

299
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:50,760
Yeah.

300
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:51,760
Yeah.

301
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:52,760
Yeah.

302
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:53,760
I do a lot of silent meditation.

303
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:58,760
So not really listening to someone speak, um, or non guided meditation, I guess you could,

304
00:22:58,760 --> 00:22:59,760
you could say.

305
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:06,760
Um, and so like a, a good timer was very, um, critical to me and there's some pretty good

306
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timers out there.

307
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,760
So like that wasn't a differentiating feature, but I just wanted to make sure I had a good

308
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timer.

309
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,760
And well, another thing I really like to do along with my meditation is journal.

310
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So I usually journal after I meditate just real quick, just writing down any thoughts or

311
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,760
ideas that came to me.

312
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,760
Many people think the goal of meditation is to completely clear your mind and not have any

313
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thoughts at all.

314
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,760
And that is sometimes the end result.

315
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,760
Forcing yourself not to have any thoughts creates more thoughts essentially.

316
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,760
So I don't like force myself not to have thoughts.

317
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,760
I don't force myself to have thoughts.

318
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,760
I just let go and just let whatever happen happen.

319
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,760
So sometimes I do get thoughts because of that.

320
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Sometimes I do get ideas because of that.

321
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,760
So I like writing those down in a journal.

322
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,760
And another one was like habit tracking.

323
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:55,760
So I wanted to like see how much time I had been meditating for, but also see like on

324
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,760
what days I meditated to see how like consistent I am over time.

325
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:03,760
Um, and yeah, apps have like these features like meditation statistics and all that.

326
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,760
But a lot of them are like hard to use and you can't really see at a glance, like how your

327
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,760
meditation habit has been, um, at least the way I wanted it.

328
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,760
So, um, I decided to, to build that in to my app as well.

329
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:20,760
Um, and especially your part about like statistics, like people love to see, um, habit tracking

330
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:21,760
and stuff.

331
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,760
And then the last part about like a good timer.

332
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,760
That's not something I really thought about.

333
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,760
Um, like I'm pretty new meditation, meditator.

334
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,760
Um, yeah.

335
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:37,760
Like I, so I credit karma was really the first time I ever like did meditation in any meaningful

336
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:38,760
way.

337
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,760
And like, we, we also had like a yoga instructor.

338
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,760
So she was yoga slash meditation.

339
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:48,760
She would come in like four times a week, um, two times for yoga, two times for meditation.

340
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,760
And like, I would always fall asleep.

341
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,760
Cause like, it was just a very soothing.

342
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:54,760
Yeah.

343
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:59,760
Well, first of all, the room had like pillows and we would all be like lying down and like

344
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,760
sometimes people would be like snoring cause like everyone just fell asleep.

345
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:04,760
Um, I don't know.

346
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,760
I thought it was good, but I never really kept up with it afterwards.

347
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,760
It just kind of like, I read about all the health benefits and it definitely like, I hear

348
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,760
a lot of anecdotes from people who are like, oh yeah, this is amazing.

349
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,760
Um, yeah, but yeah, I, I've never been the most healthy person either like mentally or physically.

350
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,760
So it's like, I should, I, it's one of those things where it's like, Hey, you know, you

351
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,760
should not eat junk food and you know, you should exercise every day.

352
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,760
You know, you should do like X, Y, Z, but then I just like, I don't do those things.

353
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,760
You have other, other priorities, kids that'll definitely take time out of the day.

354
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:39,760
Right.

355
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:40,760
Yeah.

356
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,760
Like, so everyone asked me, like ton of people ask me every single day, like, oh, you're,

357
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:45,760
so you're like retired, right?

358
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:46,760
Like, what do you do all day?

359
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:47,760
You're just like completely free.

360
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,760
Like, how are you occupying your time?

361
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:50,760
You're so free.

362
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,760
And people don't realize that like, even one kid is like more than a full-time job.

363
00:25:54,760 --> 00:26:00,760
You think that like, you think that it's basically this little person who is entirely dependent

364
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:01,760
on you in every way.

365
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:02,760
And they will literally die.

366
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:09,760
If you leave them alone for like, I don't know one day, maybe like realistically, they

367
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,760
just, they have no couple of days.

368
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,760
A couple of days, they'll die from like thirst.

369
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,760
But like, even in one day, say they like manage to get out of the house somehow, like they're

370
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:17,760
going to run into traffic.

371
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:18,760
Like they don't know anything.

372
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:19,760
Yeah.

373
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:24,760
So the thing I have heard from people though, is that like, every additional kid doesn't

374
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,760
actually overload you that much because you already only have X hours of the day.

375
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,760
So it's like, when you're already overloaded, you'll get slightly more overloaded.

376
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:37,760
Um, but it's not like 2X the amount of work, but then other people I've also heard say like,

377
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,760
oh, it's more than 2X the amount of work.

378
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,760
Cause it's infinitely more stressful or something.

379
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,760
But I feel like there's like a steady point where it's like, maybe when you have like six

380
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,760
or seven kids, the oldest kid is now old enough to take care of the younger kids.

381
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:50,760
Yeah.

382
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,760
And it's like, you know, they're kind of raising themselves at that point.

383
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:54,760
Yeah, exactly.

384
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,760
They're raising themselves, just the chain of kids raising kids.

385
00:26:58,760 --> 00:26:59,760
Yeah.

386
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:00,760
No, no, no.

387
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:06,760
When you were talking about the meditation stuff, um, and sleeping at when you're, when

388
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,760
you're meditating, that actually happens to a lot of people happen to me as well in the

389
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:10,760
beginning.

390
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:11,760
Like it's just so calming.

391
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,760
And especially when you're lying down, it's so easy to fall asleep when you're meditating,

392
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,760
which is, you know, not necessarily a bad thing.

393
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:23,760
Like you're getting your rest, but, um, cause you know, meditation is different from napping

394
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:24,760
and sleeping.

395
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:30,760
Um, but it was funny because actually I used to meditate at AQR, like the hedge fund I worked

396
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:31,760
at.

397
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,760
Um, I would just meditate after lunch for 15 minutes sitting at my desk and people would

398
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,760
walk by and they would like, you'd be like, what the heck is he doing?

399
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:40,760
Like he has his eyes closed.

400
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:41,760
He's sitting at his desk.

401
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:42,760
Is he like taking a nap?

402
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:49,760
And then at the end of the year, I found out that, so we, the company does like these funny

403
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,760
awards for like people at the end of the year.

404
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:57,760
Like, I don't know, like person who, uh, laughs the loudest or like, you know, person who like

405
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,760
never pays attention in meetings, like call it superlatives.

406
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:01,760
Right.

407
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,760
And they give, they give these people fake trophies.

408
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:10,760
Um, someone gave me, uh, sleeping, the sleeping beauty award because I was always sleeping after

409
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:11,760
eating lunch.

410
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,760
But, um, little did they know I was not sleeping.

411
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:14,760
I was meditating.

412
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,760
No one ever asked you like, Hey, like, what are you doing?

413
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,760
And they didn't like ask to join or do anything.

414
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:22,760
No.

415
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:23,760
Yeah.

416
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:24,760
No one else asked me to join or anything.

417
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,760
They just like, I heard, I mean, um, people did ask me, they're like, what are you doing?

418
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,760
Um, you know, sitting there at your desk with your eyes closed, but no one asked to join.

419
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:38,760
I think that was, uh, yeah, before meditation really became popular.

420
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,760
Actually, I started like a small meditation group at Lyft.

421
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,760
Um, so we do like a daily meditation.

422
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaking of experiences, uh, what was your favorite part or like set of experiences you

423
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:51,760
had while traveling around the world?

424
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,760
Like digital nomad life.

425
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,760
We basically did that for about nine months.

426
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,760
And so we went to Taiwan, Spain and Portugal.

427
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:08,760
Um, and so I would say my favorite experience, oh man, all those countries were great.

428
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,760
And we spent like a month or two in each place.

429
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:11,760
Okay.

430
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:16,760
I guess we didn't like seriously get to know each country, but I felt like it was such a

431
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,760
different experience from just going on vacation in these countries.

432
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,760
Um, we got to try a lot of local food.

433
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:27,760
Um, you know, I got to really understand what, what living there felt like.

434
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:33,760
And even met some of the locals, sometimes language was always a barrier, but it just felt

435
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,760
like, yeah, it just felt like, yeah, it just felt like you were a baby, right?

436
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,760
Entering the world and like everything was brand new.

437
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,760
Uh, just a brand new experience, no matter, no matter where you went.

438
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,760
So, um, we loved all three places.

439
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,760
I would say my favorite experience was Madeira, Portugal.

440
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:56,760
So Madeira is this island off of the coast of Africa, um, which is part of Portugal.

441
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,760
So Madeira, I think some people call the Hawaii of Europe.

442
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,760
Um, they call a bunch of these islands, like Hawaii of Europe, but Madeira is one of them.

443
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,760
So you have like tropical climates there on the island.

444
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,760
You also have like desert and arid climates there.

445
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,760
It's really interesting because there's tons of mountains on, on the island.

446
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:15,760
It's a volcanic island.

447
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,760
So basically you get like all four seasons on the island at the same time is, was what they say.

448
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:27,760
So, um, it was just a beautiful island with all this lush greenery and, you know, tons of hiking, lots of outdoor activities.

449
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:33,760
Um, but it was that coupled with like the modern life, modern European life.

450
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:38,760
So we stayed in the capital, Funchal, um, which was like pretty much a modern European city.

451
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:55,760
Like all the roads were like nicely paved and you had like, you know, the typical cobblestone, stone, like alleyways, um, like street, like sides of like, uh, behind the major roads with like the little restaurants and cafes and like everyone eating outside.

452
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:02,760
And being able to live comfortably in a city while also being surrounded by such beautiful nature was, uh, was awesome.

453
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,760
And like Portuguese people are amazing.

454
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,760
And actually a lot of expats, uh, moved to Madeira.

455
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,760
Like we met a lot of American expats, uh, some Chinese expats as well.

456
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,760
Um, like people with, uh, with money from China who don't know where else to put it.

457
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,760
So they moved to Madeira, Portugal, least favorite experience.

458
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:21,760
Where do I start?

459
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:33,760
Essentially we didn't do much research about Tenerife before we went, um, because we were in Taiwan at the time and Taiwan had gone into a lockdown because of COVID.

460
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,760
And so we were just essentially desperate to get out of Taiwan cause there was nothing to do.

461
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:43,760
Um, and so we saw that Spain was one of the only countries at the time in Europe that was open.

462
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:50,760
And Tenerife was like this tropical looking island, um, off of the coast of Africa that was part of Spain.

463
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,760
So we were like, okay, let's, let's go there maybe as our next destination.

464
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,760
So we didn't really do too much research into Tenerife.

465
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,760
Um, you know, we booked our Airbnb and got our tickets and whatnot.

466
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,760
And we got to Tenerife, we weren't really prepared.

467
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:08,760
Um, and then when we got there, we just had like these weird experiences with some of the locals.

468
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,760
Um, we also got there at like 3:00 AM in the morning.

469
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,760
So it was just like a bad time.

470
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:22,760
And so like the weird experiences with locals was that like, when we got there, we got picked up by, um, a taxi that we had booked beforehand.

471
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:30,760
And a taxi driver, you know, uh, drove us to our, uh, our Airbnb, but he drove to the wrong address.

472
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,760
And we were like, actually, this is, this is the address.

473
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:34,760
Do you know where it is?

474
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:35,760
And he's like, oh yeah, don't worry.

475
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:36,760
I know the right address.

476
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:37,760
Like, you don't need to tell me.

477
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:38,760
And he just kept going in circles.

478
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,760
And I'm like, look, look, look at my phone.

479
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,760
Like I'm literally showing you the address and it's not where you're going.

480
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:45,760
And he's like, oh yeah, don't worry.

481
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,760
I know about, I know, I know where you guys live.

482
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,760
Like I've, I've been to that neighborhood before.

483
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,760
And we, we just spent like 30 minutes on the road.

484
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:53,760
I'm like, what is this guy doing?

485
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,760
Like, does he not like believe me or something?

486
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:57,760
Or yeah.

487
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,760
So finally we got, we got through him and he drove us to the right address.

488
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,760
Um, he's like, as we were getting out of the car, he was like, be careful about this neighborhood.

489
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,760
Because, um, I used to, you know, drive people to this neighborhood like 20 years ago.

490
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:15,760
And it was basically, I forgot what word he used, but he was like, it's basically, um, dangerous.

491
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,760
Like there's, you know, it's like, you gotta be careful.

492
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:19,760
You gotta put your money in front of you.

493
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,760
Like, don't put your money behind you in like a backpack or something.

494
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,760
He said, like, make sure your money is in front of you all the time.

495
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:26,760
And we were like, holy crap.

496
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,760
Like, is this like a sketchy neighborhood?

497
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:29,760
It seems fine.

498
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,760
And, you know, when we were doing our initial research, it seemed fine.

499
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,760
We got there at like 4:00 AM in the morning.

500
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,760
Um, once we got in the Airbnb, um, we thought it was fine.

501
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,760
Like it was pretty well maintained and everything.

502
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,760
And, um, the next day we decided to go out and do some grocery shopping.

503
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:50,760
Um, and we tried to open the gate and we like the gate that we came in through and we literally

504
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:51,760
could not open it.

505
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:52,760
And it was like locked or something.

506
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,760
And so we looked through all the keys and like looked through all the instructions and

507
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,760
like tried all the keys and none of them worked.

508
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:04,760
So we were like, oh my gosh, are we literally locked inside like this Airbnb complex on our

509
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:05,760
first, first day?

510
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,760
Uh, we can't even go grocery shopping.

511
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,760
Like we don't have any groceries in the fridge.

512
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,760
Like, oh, like what are we going to do?

513
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,760
Um, so we contact the host and the host is like basically like blaming us.

514
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,760
She's like, like it was a, it was a weekend and she was like, no one's working on the weekend.

515
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:25,760
So, you know, it might be a couple of hours until someone gets to you, but I'll try my best.

516
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,760
And we're like, dude, like you're, you're the host.

517
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,760
Like you should, you should be apologizing.

518
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:30,760
Like you didn't give us any instructions.

519
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,760
You didn't give us the right keys.

520
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,760
Like we have no way of getting out of this place basically.

521
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:40,760
Um, and then the host actually told us about like a back door that we could get out of.

522
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,760
And we were like, wow, like you did not tell us about this.

523
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,760
Like you just caused us so much stress.

524
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,760
Um, I just spiraled like all these bad experiences.

525
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:56,760
I mean, they're not like that bad, but all these sort of, um, you know, slightly negative experiences,

526
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:57,760
just wait on me a little bit.

527
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:03,760
And that night actually, um, so beforehand we had booked a, like an excursion, uh, through

528
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,760
Airbnb to this like volcano, this like inactive volcano.

529
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,760
I think it is just local was taking us there.

530
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,760
And, um, I had noticed that no, no one else was going on the tour.

531
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,760
Like usually Airbnb shows you who else is going on the tour.

532
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,760
And I just, you know, spiraled at that point because of all these things that have happened to us.

533
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:27,760
Like we just had such, such a bad experience kind of like on our first few days in Tenerife.

534
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,760
And then now we're going on a tour to the middle of the mountains with this local.

535
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,760
And like, no one else is going on the tour.

536
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,760
And it's like, oh my gosh, like, are we going to get robbed or something?

537
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:38,760
Like, what if he just leaves us?

538
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:39,760
Right.

539
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,760
Like, like we also don't have, um, a SIM card that works locally and like, we can't call anyone.

540
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,760
So I was just like, okay, let's cancel this.

541
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:47,760
Let's cancel this tour.

542
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,760
We just spent like the next couple of weeks on the beach.

543
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,760
Luckily there's a beach next to us, uh, you know, working during the day and like going

544
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,760
to the beach in the morning and the afternoons.

545
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:58,760
And we didn't really do much.

546
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:00,760
Um, oh man, that's pretty funny.

547
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,760
Cause it's like most people now don't even remember the days before Uber and Lyft were ubiquitous.

548
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,760
And it's like those taxi issues.

549
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,760
That was kind of like the norm before.

550
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:11,760
Yeah, exactly.

551
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:12,760
People just try to scam you.

552
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,760
It's like, they're like, oh yeah, I know where I'm going.

553
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,760
Let me drive around in circles or like, one time I had this taxi driver.

554
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,760
He literally filled up in gas while we were in the taxi.

555
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:24,760
We're like, dude, what?

556
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:25,760
Like, what are you doing?

557
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,760
He's like, oh yeah, let me just, let me just grab some gas real quick.

558
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:29,760
Um, I know.

559
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:30,760
Oh my gosh.

560
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:31,760
Yeah.

561
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,760
We're so spoiled with, uh, all the technology here in the, in the U S.

562
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:35,760
I don't know if this is true.

563
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:41,760
Maybe you have more insight, but I saw that like, um, Uber and Lyft are not subsidizing a lot

564
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:42,760
of their rides anymore.

565
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:43,760
So like, they're trying to make money now.

566
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:51,760
And so before, like when I was in SF in like 2016, 2017, it cost maybe like $5 to get across

567
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,760
the town in like an Uber, um, a shared pool.

568
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:59,760
Um, and like, if you wanted to be by yourself, it'd be like 10 to 15, but now it's like the

569
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,760
price is more than doubled.

570
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,760
It's like, they're just jacking it up across the board.

571
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:05,760
Yeah.

572
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:06,760
Yeah.

573
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:07,760
I think that started when I was at Lyft too.

574
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,760
Cause they went public and they just stopped giving.

575
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:10,760
Yeah.

576
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:11,760
They stopped subsidizing the rides.

577
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,760
They stopped giving as many coupons and just ride prices went up and I wouldn't be surprised.

578
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:17,760
Actually.

579
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:17,760
Yeah.

580
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,760
This would make sense if Uber and Lyft colluded, right?

581
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,760
Cause if only one of them jacks up their prices, everyone's going to go to the other

582
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:24,760
one.

583
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,760
So, you know, they, they collude so that they can maximize both of their, uh, their revenue.

584
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,760
Yeah, dude, I actually didn't even think about that.

585
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,760
Like, I guess it's in both of their best interests.

586
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,760
Cause like, even though Uber is crushing Lyft, it's like Lyft doesn't want to be subsidizing

587
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:39,760
the rides either.

588
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,760
And now that you've mentioned it, like I wouldn't be surprised if that is a thing.

589
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,760
Uh, if anyone has connections with the justice department, look into them.

590
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,760
You heard it here first, Uber and Lyft colluded.

591
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:52,760
Oh my gosh.

592
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,760
Not a good look for an ex Lyft employee.

593
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:56,760
Ah, dude, who cares, dude?

594
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:57,760
You're gone.

595
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:58,760
They have no power over you.

596
00:37:58,760 --> 00:37:59,760
Yeah.

597
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:00,760
Dude.

598
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:01,760
I'm in the metaverse now.

599
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:02,760
I'm on the blockchain.

600
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:03,760
Yeah.

601
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:04,760
Dude.

602
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:05,760
What do you think about the metaverse?

603
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:06,760
What's your take?

604
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:07,760
I think there's opportunity.

605
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,760
I think it's, um, it's still very early, very early days.

606
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:12,760
I don't know.

607
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,760
Are you like TikToking about the metaverse at all?

608
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:15,760
Cause I saw this.

609
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:21,760
I made a couple, like, I mean, I've made a bunch of TikToks and I think I made one specifically

610
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,760
on metaverse and like a bunch of people asking about like NFTs and stuff.

611
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,760
Um, but I usually don't like to repeat topics.

612
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,760
And it's like TikTok is horrible for finding stuff.

613
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,760
So like they have a playlist feature, but it's kind of shitty.

614
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,760
Like their search function can't really work cause there's no titling.

615
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:37,760
Yeah.

616
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:38,760
So it's hard to find.

617
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,760
Is Facebook's metaverse live right now?

618
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:41,760
Or like, can you actually?

619
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,760
So they have a couple of different like VR products.

620
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:44,760
Yeah.

621
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,760
So they have like their, all their Oculus offerings and then there's like various things in there

622
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,760
that you can kind of quantify as a metaverse.

623
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:55,760
And then I believe they also have like a teams like equivalent at this point.

624
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,760
I don't know if that's live or not, but they have like a bunch of different stuff.

625
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:00,760
Yeah.

626
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:01,760
Yeah.

627
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,760
So I guess I saw, um, the sexual harassment one.

628
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,760
No, no, I didn't see that one.

629
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,760
That one sounds, sounds interesting.

630
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,760
But this TikTok exploded where this guy was just taping himself, I guess, using an Oculus

631
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,760
in one of, you know, Oculus's worlds.

632
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:21,760
And, um, he met this community person who worked full time, uh, in the metaverse.

633
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:27,760
So he just spent his day like, you know, in this world, uh, or I guess in this Oculus world

634
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:28,760
on his Oculus Rift.

635
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:33,760
And he was getting paid a salary for being a community manager or something of this digital

636
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:34,760
world.

637
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,760
So, um, I guess that blew his mind.

638
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:37,760
I can, that's kind of cool.

639
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,760
Like, you know, your, your entire job is to be in the metaverse essentially.

640
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:42,760
That would suck ass.

641
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,760
Like it's not that comfortable.

642
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,760
So like they have add ons for it.

643
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,760
Um, like they have an elite strap and they have like some other thing basically to make

644
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:51,760
it more comfortable.

645
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:52,760
And they're super overpriced.

646
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,760
It's like a hundred dollars for this like plastic strap.

647
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:56,760
Yeah.

648
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:58,760
But like, it's still not that comfortable.

649
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,760
Like when I'm wearing that thing for more than like two or three hours, I like, I don't

650
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:03,760
want to wear it anymore.

651
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:04,760
Cause it's like hot.

652
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:05,760
It's not breathable.

653
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:06,760
Yeah.

654
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:07,760
And it's still like, it's still weighs something.

655
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:08,760
Yeah.

656
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:10,760
There's like a huge ass thing on your face.

657
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,760
Um, it looks uncomfortable.

658
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:13,760
It's bearable, right?

659
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,760
Like if you were playing a really fun game or really interesting experience or something,

660
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,760
it's bearable, but like, it's nowhere near, like you can't spend, I mean, I guess technically

661
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,760
you can spend eight hours in it or whatever, but like it's, it's miserable.

662
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,760
Um, I think it's hilarious that a lot of tech executives who used to work at Facebook.

663
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:30,760
They're like, Oh yeah, it's bad for you.

664
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:31,760
Of course it's bad for you.

665
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:32,760
But I'm like, dude, all right.

666
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:33,760
You can say that now.

667
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:34,760
Cause you're not working there anymore.

668
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,760
You've made your money and you've like, you know, you, you, you already made it.

669
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,760
You have, you've got your stock or whatever you were there when it was growing.

670
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,760
And like, you obviously did not speak out while you were there.

671
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:46,760
Cause you were like getting in the bag.

672
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:47,760
Right.

673
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,760
And now that they're out there, they have like this moral high stance of like, Oh yeah.

674
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:52,760
Like, of course it's terrible.

675
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:53,760
Like I don't support it.

676
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,760
Like you guys can better watch out.

677
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:56,760
It's like, dude, fuck you.

678
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,760
Like you saying this now, like, okay, sure.

679
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:05,760
You can still be right now, but like, clearly you profited from this machine, um, in like

680
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:06,760
a very substantial way.

681
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,760
So it's like, yeah, I don't know, man.

682
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:11,760
You, you, they made it possible.

683
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:17,760
And now they're just, uh, trying to absolve themselves of any, any wrongdoing, but, um,

684
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:18,760
Okay.

685
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:23,760
So, um, I don't, I haven't super looked deeply into this fact, but I kind of believe it's

686
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,760
true, um, based on like the reasoning.

687
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:32,760
So most people before and like previous generations, the older you get, the more rights leaning

688
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:32,760
you become.

689
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,760
So the more Republican you become.

690
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:35,760
And this is there.

691
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:40,760
The theory is that the reason this happens is because you've become more wealthy.

692
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,760
So as you become more wealthy, you like get more selfish.

693
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,760
You like start to look out for yourself.

694
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:46,760
Like it all makes a lot of sense.

695
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:47,760
It's like, Hey, I got mine.

696
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,760
Like, yeah, screw you next generation type of deal.

697
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:57,760
But like, it's not happening for millennials because millennials are not becoming wealthy.

698
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,760
So like people now are poor compared to previous generations.

699
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:07,760
And so the general, like overall group of people leans more left, um, because they're not rich.

700
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:08,760
They haven't made it yet.

701
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:09,760
Yeah.

702
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,760
So like, I think that's really interesting.

703
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:16,760
Um, and it's kind of interesting to see like what the Republican party is going to do.

704
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:20,760
And especially because they've been like, they're getting super splintered right now.

705
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:26,760
Cause like there's a really large group of hardcore Trump fans, but now DeSantis, like the party

706
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,760
is trying to push him to be like the nominee.

707
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,760
And like Trump hasn't decided to run yet against him.

708
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,760
Um, but like if he did, he's going to like completely wreck the Republican party.

709
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,760
I don't know how much, uh, politics stuff you follow.

710
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,760
Not, not really none at all.

711
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,760
Do you think that has influenced you at all?

712
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:50,760
Like do you find yourself getting more conservative as your wealth increases, um, over the years?

713
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,760
I don't like to label myself one side or the other.

714
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,760
Like there are specific policies I'll agree with on both sides.

715
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:01,760
Like I don't want to hold any viewpoint so strongly that I can't change it.

716
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:02,760
So like, exactly.

717
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:07,760
There's other than like math and physics and some things that I believe, like, if those things

718
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,760
are, you know, changed, then my entire mind, I'll just be like, you know, I don't even

719
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:12,760
know what to do with myself.

720
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:17,760
But like, in terms of like other things, um, I don't think I hold such a strong belief

721
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,760
in anything that I am not willing to add a bare minimum here, the other side of the story.

722
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:29,760
So it's like, yeah, I think especially with media, um, it's like everyone's trying to paint

723
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:30,760
a narrative.

724
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:35,760
Everyone has some sort of ulterior motive, whether that's like, they're trying to get more clicks,

725
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,760
more views, or they're trying to push their own political narrative for some sort of, you

726
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:40,760
know what I'm trying to do with personal gain.

727
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:41,760
Most likely.

728
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,760
Um, it's like, it's hard to really find out like, what is the truth of something?

729
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:47,760
Right.

730
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:52,760
Cause it's like, you can hear two same, two people can read the exact same article and get completely

731
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:53,760
different conclusions.

732
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:54,760
And both of them might be valid.

733
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:55,760
Right.

734
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,760
It's like, depending on your life experiences, um, depending on like what your existing ideology

735
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:04,760
is, like how it fits into your narrative and like who you are as a person.

736
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:11,760
Um, so it's like the, one of the, my most recent TikToks that got like an insane number of like

737
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,760
comment to, um, like view ratio.

738
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,760
Like it had thousands, literally thousands of comments.

739
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,760
I mean, like even right now people are probably like just fighting each other.

740
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,760
So like dramatically.

741
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:30,760
And I won't like go into detail for it, but it's like, I, I think humans just in general,

742
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:35,760
we like to categorize things because it helps us simplify the world.

743
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,760
So it's easy to put things into buckets.

744
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:38,760
Yeah.

745
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,760
Like most things are not black or white.

746
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,760
They're like shades of gray and like, it's like a scale, right?

747
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:44,760
So say like zero is here.

748
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:45,760
One is here.

749
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,760
It's not even just somewhere on the scale, but it's like a slider.

750
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:49,760
Right.

751
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:54,760
And it's like your sentiment can be anywhere on this scale or like, yeah, I don't know.

752
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:59,760
I just think it's like, it's way more complex than being simply like, oh, you're a liberal

753
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,760
or, oh, you're like a far right Republican.

754
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,760
Cause it's like, humans are intelligent creatures.

755
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,760
Like everyone can form their own thoughts.

756
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,760
And like, I'm sure I'd be surprised if you can find any single person who agrees a hundred

757
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:17,760
percent with either side on every single policy decision, because it's like, unless they're

758
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,760
just like, you know, completely against like hitting the other side, which is also like, you

759
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:23,760
know, not in their best interest.

760
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:29,760
You want to be more like thoughtful, like everything that happens, you can't just listen to some

761
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,760
greater authority or just like do things because that's what your party tells you.

762
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,760
Because like, what's that saying?

763
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,760
It's like, I think it's from men in black.

764
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,760
It's like Will Smith was like, oh, you know, people are dumb.

765
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:42,760
Like individuals are smart.

766
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:43,760
People are dumb.

767
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,760
They're like, or maybe it was like Tommy Lee who said that.

768
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,760
I don't remember, but it's like, basically when you give up your critical thinking skills

769
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,760
and just go along with the masses, like you're, you're doing yourself a disservice and you're

770
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:56,760
doing others a disservice.

771
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:01,760
Um, this is a really long winded way to say, like, I don't, uh, ascribe to like either

772
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:02,760
political ideology.

773
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,760
Cause I feel like that pigeons hold you, that pigeon holds you too much in terms of like,

774
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,760
just separating like black or white.

775
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,760
Cause it's like, yeah, it's more, it's much more complex than that.

776
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:13,760
Yeah, absolutely.

777
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,760
I agree a hundred percent with, with everything you said there.

778
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:22,760
It was, it's interesting that like, just like even black and white technically are like shades

779
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:23,760
of gray, right?

780
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,760
Um, like it's just a continuum.

781
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:32,760
And when do you really get from like a shade of gray to black?

782
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:33,760
Like what is the dividing point?

783
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:34,760
Right?

784
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,760
Like it's like the, it's like the, the, the number line, right?

785
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:42,760
Like you can go infinitely deep into, um, into a number.

786
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,760
Like when do you actually, like, if you keep dividing the number line by half, right?

787
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,760
Like when do you actually get to, um, get to something solid?

788
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:57,760
And I think like critical thinking is, is such an important skill, um, in the, in the modern world.

789
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:04,760
And with, with social media and with all this polarization, um, of like these, these two political parties.

790
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,760
And, and even, even in the world, it's like us versus, it's always us versus them.

791
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:14,760
It's like us versus China or, um, you know, this, this party versus this other party.

792
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:27,760
And I think, um, yeah, when you're, when you label yourself like that, or when you start seeing yourself as part of that, that category, that group, that like giant collective, then yeah, you're, you're giving up your, your freedom.

793
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:32,760
You're giving up your own individual ideas and thoughts and your own creativity and your own potential.

794
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:41,760
Like you said, like you're doing a disservice for society because you're just giving up all your, your individual potential, um, for this, for this collective.

795
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:42,760
And yeah.

796
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:53,760
And like the point about, um, the us first, us versus them, I think like just as humans, because when you really break it down, we're just, we're a really smart animal, but we're still animal.

797
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:59,760
Like we have hundreds of millions of years of evolution that have programmed us to think in a certain way.

798
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:10,760
Um, and it's like, we still have a lot of biases and like internal assumptions that are, that just don't service that well anymore.

799
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:22,760
And it's like, when you think of being a part of a tribe and I, I may be getting some of these, a lot of this information from like a book called like tribe and the loss of family or something like that.

800
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:22,760
Okay.

801
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:35,760
But it's like before, when you think about like a tribe back in the olden days, um, when you, when you mess up, like when you're a bad actor in a tribe, you get kicked out and you die.

802
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:36,760
Yeah.

803
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,760
So like your, your penalty for being a asshole is death.

804
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,760
So that kind of weeds out a lot of people who are bad actors.

805
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:44,760
And like, sure.

806
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:50,760
You might be like really skilled in some way in terms of like manipulation or like covering for yourself.

807
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,760
But like the general rule of thumb is like, you had to contribute to your tribe.

808
00:48:53,760 --> 00:49:00,760
You had to be like a somewhat respectable member of society, um, in order to like continue living to pass on your genetics.

809
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:01,760
Yeah.

810
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:14,760
But nowadays it's like, there's very, very little chance that you'll die just from assuming you're in like a rich country with modern healthcare and like sure there's all sorts of ways you can die.

811
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:28,760
But like in general, like our life expectancy and just like the general rate of you being alive is, is much more likely than before when you had, when we did have modern medicine, uh, didn't have like reliable shelter, reliable food source, et cetera.

812
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,760
And so now it's like the modern kind of tribe.

813
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:34,760
So like Google where you call yourself a new blur and a Googler.

814
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:39,760
And a lot of these terms are actually how you like form a cult.

815
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:44,760
And so like Google versus Facebook, like Facebook was always saying like, Oh yeah, Google's the enemy.

816
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,760
Like we have to beat them, et cetera, et cetera.

817
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:49,760
And it helps to like reinforce this like sense of identity.

818
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:51,760
Like, Oh, I am a, I am a Googler.

819
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:55,760
Like these are my values and they have like motivational posters and shit.

820
00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:09,760
And it's like, I think it's all like, I don't know if it's subtle or not so subtle forms of manipulation, but like, even if you're a bad actor and like say you get kicked out of company, like it doesn't really matter anymore because like we don't know how to hire.

821
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,760
Well, and so a lot of people look at resume, they look at experience, uh, if I look at connections.

822
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:23,760
And so regardless if you like screw over your company or like, if you are really bad worker, like that, you can overcome that a lot of times just by being good at interviewing.

823
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:32,760
Um, but the point I was kind of trying to make before I got into the cult stuff was like, you can be a really bad actor.

824
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:34,760
Like you can be a shitty person these days.

825
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,760
And like, you might not get punished.

826
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,760
Like there's a good chance you won't get punished.

827
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:43,760
Um, even going to the extremes of like, um, going against societal norms.

828
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,760
Right. So like society, we think of like, okay, they have these laws to uphold here.

829
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,760
They have these rules for being a quote unquote good citizen.

830
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:55,760
Um, but then a lot of laws are written by the like oligarchy, right?

831
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,760
They're written by the upper class and it's like laws.

832
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:04,760
If you think about them, if the penalty for a law is a fine, then it basically means it's only a penalty for poor people.

833
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,760
Cause if you're a rich person, like no one cares about fines.

834
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,760
I think there was like a famous story about like Bezos or Zuckerberg, one of these tech executives.

835
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,760
They just got like tens of thousands in parking tickets.

836
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:19,760
Cause they like either didn't have a license or didn't have like a license plate or like never paid the parking fees.

837
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:20,760
Cause they're like, yeah, fuck this.

838
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:21,760
Right. Like I'm rich.

839
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:22,760
I'll just, I'll just deal with the fines.

840
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,760
And like, this is, this means nothing to me.

841
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,760
Um, and there's only like one country that does it as a percentage of your income.

842
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:38,760
So I'm like probably Nordic country or like Sweden or something where they're like, all right, if you get like a speeding ticket, we're going to, we're going to ticket you like 5% of your total salary.

843
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,760
It's not that high, but it's still like a percentage.

844
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:42,760
So it's like rich people.

845
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:46,760
It's like, okay, if you're rich, you can't just randomly break the law and get a slap on the wrist.

846
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:47,760
Like you're going to feel the pain.

847
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:48,760
Like you're making 10 million.

848
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:50,760
We're going to find you a hundred thousand dollars or something.

849
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:51,760
Yeah.

850
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:52,760
Yeah.

851
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:54,760
No, that's, I think that's, that's a great point.

852
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,760
I think like, like laws and fines, you know, they're, they're good.

853
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:05,760
And I think necessary, um, for society, you know, humans are, uh, are dumb sometimes.

854
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,760
So you got to have those laws to, to incentivize the right actions.

855
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:17,760
But I think like at the end of the day, we need morals as, as you were saying, like, you could still do bad things and a lot of times get away with it in society.

856
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,760
And so I think we, we need morals.

857
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:29,760
And, and when I say need, I don't mean, I'm not, you know, trying to sit, I'm not trying to preach or be like, you know, everyone needs to, needs to learn what's good or bad or anything.

858
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,760
I think like, so, so like what really matters in life, right?

859
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:41,760
Like you can do bad stuff or you can do kind of shady stuff to, to get ahead in life and make as much money as possible or, you know, get what you want.

860
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:47,760
But like at the end of the day or at the end of the life, like you're going to look back and are you going to be, are you going to be satisfied with that?

861
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,760
Are you going to be fully, you know, happy or at peace with your life that you lived a good life?

862
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:58,760
I don't know, maybe some people are, maybe psychopaths will be, but for most people, I feel like they won't be.

863
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:06,760
And so there has to be something else that, that allows us to, to feel fulfilled as we're living life.

864
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:14,760
And with morals that comes with empathy and like listening to others and yeah, being a less, less judgmental person.

865
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:32,760
And there's just all these, all these benefits. Right. And yeah, I think that's, that's a perspective that actually like came to me as I was meditating and also getting a little bit more into spirituality and like reading about Buddhism and, and that sort of thing.

866
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:39,760
And yeah, I think like you've articulated all that stuff pretty well, even though you, you said you didn't really meditate, which is fine.

867
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:44,760
Like you don't have to meditate to, to understand all that, but.

868
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,760
Correct me if I'm like completely butchering this, but like the origins of Buddhism.

869
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:53,760
So like Buddha himself, he was like this rich, like very pampered Indian prince or something.

870
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,760
And so one day he's like, Oh man, I want to like enlighten myself.

871
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,760
I want to like find out what it's like to be part of the people.

872
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,760
So he goes on like this very hedonistic.

873
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:05,760
Am I saying that word right?

874
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:06,760
Yeah.

875
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:13,760
Journey where he tries to like deny himself of all pleasures, live among the people, like give away all this stuff, meditate for a long ass time.

876
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,760
And then he like somehow achieves this enlightenment.

877
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:18,760
And then he starts to like spread the teachings.

878
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:20,760
Like, did I get the basic points, right?

879
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:21,760
Or like, what am I missing?

880
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,760
Or like, what points would you want to add there?

881
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:26,760
Yeah, that's basically it.

882
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:37,760
I mean, that's my basic understanding is, yeah, he, you know, he's this rich guy who has everything he wants, but then he leaves his palace and sees sick people and sees, you know, poor people.

883
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:45,760
And, you know, he just realizes that the world has so much suffering and he wants to better understand that.

884
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:53,760
And so, yeah, he like basically leaves all his riches behind and goes off to meditate and like contemplate these things.

885
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:58,760
And, you know, miraculously, he gets he understands everything.

886
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:03,760
And, yeah, he, you know, he wants to spread those teachings.

887
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:17,760
And I think Buddhism generally, and also, you know, aspects of Hinduism, they just, yeah, they just get at a lot of the, I don't know how to put it.

888
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:29,760
I just feel like they're, they feel like they resonate with me the most and probably maybe with you the most if we were to pick amongst the religions, like the teachings that resonate with you the most.

889
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:35,760
I would say include like the Eastern religions, like Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism as well.

890
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:37,760
And I think there's something there.

891
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,760
Like, I think they maybe not captured the complete truth.

892
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:48,760
I don't think anyone can, but they've they've gotten at it, I think, better than other modern reincarnations of the other religions.

893
00:55:49,760 --> 00:56:01,760
Yeah, the so like I was raised, I don't know if you were raised this way, but like in Iowa back when we were like, you know, doing whatever, like all the families, they were, you know, baptized Christians.

894
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,760
And we had like went to that church and played basketball.

895
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:12,760
Yeah, but like, you know, none of us really believe maybe some people did, but we just went there because our parents went there, you know, eat some potluck food.

896
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:20,760
And it wasn't really until junior year of high school where I took AP world history that I really learned about a lot of different religions.

897
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:32,760
So like I would go to church sometimes and I would go to like, I forget what you call it, but basically it was like a youth thing where they would have like a sermon and you like eat food and play games or whatever.

898
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:49,760
So I just did it because like other people did it, but then in junior high school AP world history learning about all these different sorts of religion because like I knew nothing about Judaism or like, yeah, what it meant to be a Muslim or just general like what was going on in the world up until this point.

899
00:56:49,760 --> 00:57:02,760
And I think I don't want to get too much into religion, but the one part that I thought was very interesting is like basically all these old texts, they all reference like a really great flood that happened.

900
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:16,760
And so it's like, it's not just Christianity or like this flood and like the ark and that stuff that's, you know, that's whatever, but like in various religious texts were just like general history, like they talk about this giant flood.

901
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:27,760
So it's like, okay, that part's probably real, like some sort of flood happened and probably fucked a lot of shit up that like, you know, who knows if it is the whole world, but it was probably a lot of the world at that time.

902
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:28,760
And I thought that was really interesting.

903
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:40,760
But like, yeah, man, history is so interesting because like, it's so many things are cyclical, like that you don't even realize, like all these, like even modern day trends or even not even that modern, like you can do it.

904
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:42,760
You don't have to go back that far to see a lot of these trends.

905
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,760
And like, I think it's becoming more popular nowadays.

906
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:53,760
Like people have written more books that have gotten some amounts of public recognition in terms of like, here's like some modern economic cycle theory.

907
00:57:53,760 --> 00:58:04,760
Here are some of like the, I guess mostly economics is what's being focused on, but in terms of like fall and rise of societies, that kind of stuff is super interesting.

908
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:12,760
And yeah, like if I didn't have to worry about money, I would have majored in history and psychology because even those like, they don't make any money at all.

909
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:22,760
But it's just so interesting to learn about because it's like, I think people focus a lot on like the here and now and like we have all this data now and like everyone's trying to make all these insights.

910
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:37,760
But even it's like the best, the people with the best data and the best software and the best tools still very rarely can predict the future in like meaningful ways outside of like very specific things like the weather or like, which we figured out a long time ago.

911
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:44,760
But in terms of like more macroeconomic trends or more like, you know, fall and rise of societies.

912
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:55,760
And as an aside, there was like this one document that was released that was supposedly made by the KGB.

913
00:58:55,760 --> 00:59:03,760
It was like, okay, here's our like plan to basically weaken the West in terms of like, here's our, here's our game plan.

914
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:08,760
Here's how we're going to make Russia rise up and like screw up Britain and the US and whatever.

915
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:11,760
And they've actually accomplished a lot of things on this list.

916
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,760
I heard it was like, one of them was like separate Britain from the rest of Europe.

917
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,760
So like Brexit happened.

918
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:24,760
Another one was like incite nationalism in the United States to like polarize the left and right, which is happening slash happened.

919
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:29,760
I forget what else was on this list, but it's like, this is made a long time ago.

920
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,760
Like, I don't know the fifties sixties or something.

921
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:37,760
And if you look at like the actual checklist of these events, a lot of them have come to fruition.

922
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:39,760
So who knows if like, that's still a thing.

923
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:45,760
If like Putin is like this, you know, evil mastermind in the background, or like that just kind of happened naturally.

924
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:46,760
I don't know.

925
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:47,760
Yeah.

926
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:48,760
Yeah.

927
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:49,760
It's super interesting.

928
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:50,760
I wonder.

929
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:51,760
Yeah.

930
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:52,760
I wonder how much influence they had.

931
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:53,760
They had on that.

932
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:54,760
Exactly.

933
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:58,760
Like, or if it just happens naturally and maybe they, they learned from the past, right?

934
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:05,760
Like they learned what happened to, to other empires or societies that fell and they, they baked that into their plan.

935
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:13,760
And, you know, even though the KGB went defunct, like it still just happened just because of history and because everything in history is cyclical.

936
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:22,760
Um, so back during like the 2008 recession, uh, Facebook was like, okay, maybe we want to like raise some money and just have some sort of like war chest.

937
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:24,760
Um, and all the investors were being kind of skittish.

938
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,760
So they didn't give Facebook like the terms that it wanted.

939
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:39,760
Um, and Facebook was offering like pretty, you know, fair terms for a lot of these investors and investors were just trying to like penny pitch them in terms of like, okay, well, we don't want to like give you that much money at X valuation or whatever.

940
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:41,760
And so Russia comes in, right?

941
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,760
And this is where things get a little conspiracy theory ask.

942
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:51,760
So Russia comes in and they're like, all right, we'll just give you, they offer them a much better deal than they wanted for no board seats.

943
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:53,760
And Facebook was for, they're like, what?

944
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:54,760
Like, this is crazy.

945
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:55,760
Like what's, what's the catch?

946
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:56,760
Is this legit?

947
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:58,760
Is this like some sort of like mob money?

948
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:00,760
Like, is this check going to clear?

949
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,760
Um, the check did clear and they got the money.

950
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:16,760
But then ever since that happened, it's like, okay, well now one of the largest tech companies in the world, well, it wasn't back then, but like one of the most influential companies, um, like has all this money from Russia.

951
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:18,760
Um, like, you know, they don't really know the source.

952
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:20,760
They know that the check was good and it cleared.

953
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:25,760
Um, and like, I actually got this from the, this anecdotal story from the all in podcast.

954
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:34,760
I'm probably like telling it wrong in some way, but the story was like the, um, one of the hosts, he actually met with that Russian dude.

955
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:41,760
Uh, I don't know if he's like a monster or just like a normal businessman or whatever, but he's like, oh, like, how come you didn't ask for a board seat?

956
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:44,760
Like the, you know, they would have given you one easily.

957
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:44,760
Right.

958
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:54,760
And it was like the Russian guy responds with like, you do not need board seats for influence saying, saying, basically saying like, yeah, like it doesn't matter if you have a board seat or not.

959
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,760
Like we're, we're fucking like going to influence these things regardless.

960
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:58,760
Yeah.

961
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:09,760
Um, if you remember when Obama was debating Romney and Mitt Romney was like the greatest threat to American democracy right now is Russia.

962
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:11,760
And like Obama just like made fun of him.

963
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:15,760
And like, he got so much shit for saying that everyone was like giving him grief.

964
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:16,760
Me like written on me.

965
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:17,760
You're a fricking, you're an idiot.

966
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:18,760
Like you're a conspiracy theorist.

967
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:19,760
Like Russia.

968
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:23,760
Like, no dude, we're like, no, they're not a thing anymore.

969
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:25,760
They felt like they're not, we're America.

970
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:26,760
Right.

971
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:27,760
Like Russia has nothing on us.

972
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:28,760
And now look at modern day.

973
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:30,760
It's like, oh shit, Russia maybe does have something on us.

974
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:32,760
There's, there's a lot of sketchy things happening.

975
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:39,760
There's a lot of money flows, but it's almost like people are not as against Russia anymore either.

976
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:41,760
Like they seem to be more against China now.

977
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:45,760
Um, but I think that also has to do with like the rise of China and the fall of Russia economically.

978
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:50,760
So like maybe if Russia was more powerful, they would get more hate.

979
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:51,760
Um, but like, I don't know.

980
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:53,760
I think the whole like global relations stuff.

981
01:02:53,760 --> 01:03:00,760
I don't know if us like plebs will ever know the full picture or not, or maybe 20 to 30 years when they release all this stuff.

982
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:05,760
But like, there's a lot of stuff going on in the background that we have no idea about.

983
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:11,760
And it involves lots of money and lots of power, lots of dirt on powerful people.

984
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:26,760
I hope that one day, you know, 10 years, 20 years from now, there's like a Netflix special or like a who documentary or something where it shows like a glimpse into these dealings of the super elites of the rich.

985
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,760
Cause it's like, you'll hear comedians talk about it.

986
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:30,760
Some rich people will talk about it.

987
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:31,760
They'll be like, oh yeah.

988
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:33,760
You know, there is this cabal of this.

989
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:37,760
Like, you know, they're not evil necessarily, but they're just like the secret society.

990
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:46,760
Maybe like a hundred men, a hundred really old men that control the entire world in terms of like owning all the media or like having all this influence or whatever.

991
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:53,760
I wouldn't be surprised if it felt either way, if this was just like completely false, but also if it was true, I'd be like, yeah, I could, I could see that.

992
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:54,760
I could see that.

993
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:55,760
Yeah.

994
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,760
Just like the stuff coming up, coming out of like that, the Epstein case.

995
01:03:58,760 --> 01:03:59,760
Right.

996
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:04,760
And yeah, you know, all this, all this stuff about the, the really rich and really powerful.

997
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:08,760
Um, and yeah, we, we probably won't ever see that.

998
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:12,760
And we'll just have to live with whatever influences they're, they're generating.

999
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,760
Cause they're definitely generating a lot of influences, right?

1000
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,760
Like they're owning these social media companies, media companies in general.

1001
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:21,760
And, you know, they're owning everything we use probably.

1002
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:28,760
And, um, there's just a ton of money with like tons of, uh, uh, incentives behind that.

1003
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:29,760
Right.

1004
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:34,760
Just like, and we're just, we're just plebeians just being pushed around by the wind.

1005
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:40,760
And I think that brings us back to your point about how important critical thinking is and

1006
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:47,760
about how important, I guess, individual freedom and thinking for yourself is because like, you

1007
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:49,760
can't control what happens outside of there.

1008
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:52,760
Like you can't control what happens outside of your mind.

1009
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:55,760
You know, what goes on in social media, what goes on in the world.

1010
01:04:55,760 --> 01:05:02,760
Um, you know, what, what event or what war China and the U S might get into or whatever, like, we're

1011
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:04,760
just, we're just little people.

1012
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:08,760
And so the best we can do is, um, is control how we react to it.

1013
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:15,760
Like, you know, we have this input of all these things happening outside like war or like media, things

1014
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:20,760
on media, things on social media, things that incite anger and, you know, hatred.

1015
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:25,760
Um, and I think once that gets in, gets into us, we have this ability to think critically

1016
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:26,760
about it.

1017
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:32,760
We have this ability to become aware of it and, um, you know, and, and judge it and, um, determine

1018
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:35,760
if that's something that we want to hold for ourselves or not.

1019
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:42,760
Um, and just live our own happy lives, oblivious to all the things going on in the background.

1020
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:49,760
Um, knowledge is, uh, oh, I guess ignorance is bliss for sure.

1021
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:53,760
I really love how you tied that all the way back to our previous conversation, Troy.

1022
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:56,760
And I think at this point we're nearing, we're like over two hours or something.

1023
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:59,760
Um, so I think that's a good point to end the podcast.

1024
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:06,760
Um, for our viewers out for listeners or viewers out there, what is some advice you would give

1025
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:11,760
someone say, who's just starting out either their college career or a young person in their

1026
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:12,760
twenties.

1027
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:15,760
Uh, and what's a good book recommendation you have for everyone.

1028
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:21,760
In terms of advice, I would just bring it back to a lot of what we talked about around thinking

1029
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:23,760
for yourself essentially in critical thinking.

1030
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:29,760
I think, um, it's very easy, especially when you're young to get stuck in what society wants,

1031
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:30,760
what your parents want.

1032
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:35,760
Um, you know, the paths that are laid out in front of you, like, okay, I get this degree.

1033
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:36,760
I get this job.

1034
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:41,760
I become promoted or like, you know, stay within this, this industry and, you know, make more

1035
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:42,760
money, right.

1036
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:46,760
We've got to, got to make more money to buy that house or to, to have enough money for

1037
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:47,760
retirement, right.

1038
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:48,760
Put money in your 401k.

1039
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:51,760
All these things are things that people tell us.

1040
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:56,760
Um, but I think it's, you know, you can definitely use follow, follow these paths to your advantage,

1041
01:06:56,760 --> 01:07:00,760
but it's also important to think for yourself and think about what, what you really want out

1042
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:01,760
of life.

1043
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:08,760
Um, and, and, uh, to always have that in mind as you are going through, through life and

1044
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:09,760
trying different things.

1045
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:16,760
Um, I think one thing that I've learned that I think has helped me, but has definitely not

1046
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:19,760
been easy is all the experimentation I've done.

1047
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:21,760
So I've jumped around to so many different jobs.

1048
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:24,760
Maximum, I spent like two years at a single job.

1049
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:26,760
Most jobs, I only stayed at a year or so.

1050
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:30,760
Um, and I've always done little side projects in the past.

1051
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:36,760
And one of them has been enough for me to, uh, quit my job with, or has generated enough

1052
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:37,760
revenue for me to quit my job with.

1053
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:44,760
And all that is born out of, uh, you know, constant experimentation with like, what kinds

1054
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:46,760
of things do I like doing?

1055
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:48,760
What kind of impact do I want to have on the world?

1056
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:55,760
Um, and I'm nowhere near where I guess I think this can take me, but, um, I don't think

1057
01:07:55,760 --> 01:08:00,760
I don't think I would have gotten there without constant experimentation and constant learning

1058
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:05,760
and just, um, thinking for myself and, and trying to, to find the truth, right.

1059
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:13,760
Uh, with, with that experimentation, um, in terms of book recommendations, I would say, well,

1060
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:18,760
one book I'm really liking right now and pretty much finished it, but it's so good that I want

1061
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:24,760
to go back to it many times is called adult children of emotionally immature parents.

1062
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:32,760
Um, seems kind of like a serious, you know, scary topic, but I, yeah, I guess like growing

1063
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:35,760
up, I never had the best relationship with, with my parents.

1064
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:40,760
And I feel like a lot of immigrant families or children of immigrants may, may feel similarly,

1065
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:46,760
you know, they're coming from this country that often has a lot of turmoil and, um, you

1066
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:51,760
know, a lot of poverty and you're, you're coming to America, which has so much opportunity, but

1067
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:52,760
you're just so focused on surviving.

1068
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:56,760
You're so focused on providing for your family and providing the best opportunity for your

1069
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:57,760
family.

1070
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:04,760
Because of that, perhaps the children don't develop as, uh, as emotionally or, um, don't

1071
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:09,760
develop emotional maturity as, as you might want in an ideal childhood environment.

1072
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:15,760
So I feel like this book has shed a ton of light on not only why I

1073
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:22,760
why I do certain things, um, and why I behave, but also on why my parents behave and how that

1074
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:23,760
has influenced me.

1075
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:28,760
And also on how I might be able to, um, in a sense, repair my relationship with them, which

1076
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:36,760
is my ultimate goal, um, to cultivate that relationship with them, but also relationship with, with everyone

1077
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:37,760
else.

1078
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:42,760
Um, you know, like all my friends and, and future family and my future kids.

1079
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:46,760
So I think this book is like, just like opening my eyes to all of that.

1080
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:50,760
Because before I thought, okay, like, this is just how I'm wired or like, you know, my parents will,

1081
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:51,760
will do whatever they do.

1082
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,760
And like, there's no like real reason for it.

1083
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:57,760
Or maybe that was, you know, how they were raised, but I didn't really connect the dots.

1084
01:09:57,760 --> 01:09:58,760
Basically.

1085
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:01,760
Um, and I didn't really see how one would influence the other.

1086
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:06,760
Um, and I think this book has, has helped me a lot, uh, in terms of like connecting the dots

1087
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:11,760
and like being able to communicate more effectively with my parents, but also everyone else that

1088
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:12,760
I come into contact with.

1089
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:18,760
Um, and I think, yeah, being able to do that just allows you to, you know, express your true

1090
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:20,760
talents, um, more fully.

1091
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:25,760
And as we mentioned before, like attain your, your full potential as an individual.

1092
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:31,760
Um, and I think, yeah, just like seeing those hidden relationships, seeing those hidden patterns

1093
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:36,760
in like the relationships that you had with your, your parents is, is very difficult, but it's, uh,

1094
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:39,760
it's some rewarding work that you, that you can do.

1095
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:41,760
Very cool.

1096
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:43,760
I think I've actually heard of that book somewhere before.

1097
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:44,760
I might've like seen it on Reddit.

1098
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:47,760
Um, but I'll give that a read now as well.

1099
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:48,760
That sounds pretty good.

1100
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:49,760
Um, very cool.

1101
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:50,760
All right.

1102
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:52,760
Well, thank you, Troy for joining us.

1103
01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:53,760
And yeah.

1104
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:54,760
And thank you for having me on Frank.

1105
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:55,760
Yeah.

1106
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:58,760
Just happy to be here and happy to chat with you, Frank and catch up again.