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So today, I am joined by Dr. Karan. He is a world famous doctor, has millions of followers on social media. Thank you for taking the time to join me on Frankly Speaking today.

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Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here and have a chat with you, man.

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Yeah, so I'm curious, like, what made you start creating content on TikTok? Like, I see quite a few medical professionals on there. And just wondering, like, what your personal story was there?

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Yeah, I mean, a lot of people associate kind of my social media origins with just being on TikTok. But actually, back in 2012, I had a YouTube channel, I still have a YouTube channel, it's the same one, but it had a different name back then, it was called the OSCE station. And it was a from my time in medical school where I made videos more directed towards healthcare professionals and students to teach them how to do, you know, medical examinations,

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and you know, how to use certain things and how to take blood and all that kind of stuff. So it's very geared towards medicine, not for like the every person, viewer. And it got a bit of a cult following had like 30,000 followers, which I thought was quite big for back then in 2012.

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And I wish I kind of continued that because in 2012, YouTube was a completely different world, social media was a different world back then. But you know, medical school finals got in the way and then being a doctor and all that kind of stuff. And I just put that to the side. And then in 2018, I kind of, I always liked medical history.

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So many interesting stories from there, you know, just millions of amazing stories. And I started posting some medical history posts on Instagram. And then on 2020, kind of tick tock came along, and I was a casual consumer of content for a long time. And then actually, I was on call one day with one of my juniors. And he said, you know, tell me some interesting facts.

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And I said, okay, did you know that there are more bacterial and microbial cells in the human body than human cells? And he's like, okay, I don't believe you. And I said, you know, the stomach acid can dissolve razor blades. It's that powerful. And he was like, Oh, don't believe that either. And he made me do these facts on a video. And I posted it on TikTok. I was in my scrubs and my surgical hat. And I just captioned it weird medical facts part one.

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And we scrubbed in for surgery, we finished the surgery. And he said, check your phone. And I checked my phone on TikTok. And there were loads of messages and comments and likes and shares. At that time, I had like maybe a couple of hundred followers. And that video hit like 100,000 views. And I was like, wow, that's incredible. 100,000 people watch this. And I realized people wanted those weird medical facts. There was a niche and appetite for medical knowledge. And that was my longest ever running series.

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And I made one to 99 parts of weird medical facts. And obviously, over time, I evolved and talked about COVID misinformation, the pandemic, other health stuff, how to sleep better, gut health, all these sort of things. And I branched out to various things. But yeah, that was my origin. And I'm glad I stuck to it.

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That's amazing.

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That's amazing. Yeah. Hearing that you create content all the way back in like 2012. Like back then, creating content on social media was kind of seen as like this almost weird thing. Because back then, people were like, hey, don't share your information online. Like, and people who wanted to be like influencer wasn't really a word back then. Back then, it was like people who genuinely wanted to create content just because they thought it was fun or interesting in some way.

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And then hearing about how like TikTok blew up that video, I think it's a very common story, especially around that time, where like a lot of content creators started getting a lot of traction, because there's also so many more people consuming that content.

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Yeah, I mean, I think at the very first time when, to answer that second question, to go on to that point, in 2020, I think that was when, obviously, the pandemic was just becoming more of a global phenomenon. And people weren't just like, okay, it isn't just this one country that's affected, my country now being affected. So a lot of people became more kind of hyper aware of their own health, hygiene, and things like that.

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So for doctors, certainly that saw a boom in the rise of these kind of doctor fluences, medical influences. And obviously, my kind of time, you know, was associated with that as well. But I think also, there was a change in the actual TikTok app itself. It was shedding off its emblem of being this musically dancing, singing, lip syncing app. And actually, it became more of an educational app. And actually, I remember around May of 2020,

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2020, someone from TikTok reached out to me and said, Hey, you're making all this amazing educational content, we're launching this hashtag called hashtag learn on TikTok. And I think around April, May 2020 was the first time they were releasing this hashtag. And they said, we want you to post, you know, as many videos as you can with learn on TikTok.

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And I was already doing educational videos, I thought, okay, cool. If it maybe helps my videos in any way, I put hashtag learn on TikTok with all my videos. And, you know, you look at that hashtag now, it has like, dozens of billions of views, which just shows you like, you know, how TikTok has become an educational app as well. And, you know, to that,

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to that end, it's, you know, you see all these people commenting how the first time they'll look something up will be on TikTok, it's become like a Google rival, for like SEO and, you know, searching functions. But yeah, even back then, social media, YouTube was like the Google version of what TikTok is now in terms of you could look stuff up, how to, you know, put up a, you know, shelf or how to fix your car. And that was YouTube back then. But TikTok is becoming that. And yeah,

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the social media landscape back then was so different. And like you said, I made content just because I liked shooting videos. I was like, always into drama. I liked being on camera. I liked educating. So, you know, it wasn't intended as yeah, I want to go viral with this. I don't even think that was a word back then in the sense that we know it, you know, that was purely a medical word. But yeah, I just thought, yeah, let me just put these videos out. But now it's like, it's a career for people, you know, it wasn't really back then, but it is now.

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Yeah, it's pretty crazy to see like, so many young people, basically, every Gen Z, I know, has some sort of social media presence, whether that's like on TikTok, or YouTube, or something else. And a lot of people are seriously considering it as a career, which, I don't know how I feel about that, just because I feel like most of them will be disappointed.

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And it's interesting that you mentioned the SEO portion, because I read some study or some stat that over like 40% to like close to half of Gen Z, TikTok is actually their main search engine of choice over Google, which is insane to me, right? Like, not just for like, but I think it might have been specific to like the food and entertainment category.

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So not like a blanket everything, but Google definitely seems to be on a downtrend. And especially I don't know if you looked into chat GPT, it's like this new AI, natural language processing thing that's that might give Google some problem in the future, where it's like Google search results, you have like crawlers that crawl websites, and they try to give you through their algorithm, like something that they think might make sense.

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But then chat GPT can ask it a question. So it'd be like, I don't know, how do I put on my shelf, and it'll give you actual human readable language back, like, oh, here's how you do it. Here's XYZ steps. So like, clearly, one is much more human readable, you don't actually have to go look for the information just presents you the information.

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But I was also wondering, like, what were your thoughts on a lot of these AI, like helpers, like I was even working on some of this tech, but all the way back in like, I don't know, 2012 or 2013, when they're like, hey, Watson's gonna help doctors and help nurses or whatever, that never really materialized, as far as I know. But kind of wondering about the future implications of kind of a lot of these like AI helpers for the medical field.

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Yeah, I think, I mean, the AI that kind of people think of movies and stuff, I guess, you know, we're not even scratching the surface of getting to that kind of level of sentience at all. But I mean, the kind of AI we have now is still mind blowing to see what it can do, just even from like, you know, generating amazing novel images and kind of deep fakes of people that just look like people that there aren't. And I think specifically in the medical field.

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There was an interesting study that I came across a few months back. And it was basically that these researchers used AI to detect the racial ethnicity of people just based on x rays.

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Yeah, and I was astounded because like they calibrated the x ray so that they removed any, you know, clues that might signal bone density, because we know some racial groups might have disparities and differences in bone density, which might be a clue. They removed that they removed any demographic identifying features.

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So it was just almost the pixels. And AI was still able to detect whether someone was Hispanic or, you know, black African or white Caucasian or, you know, Indian Asian.

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And I thought, wow, and even get the percentages and the breakdown. And obviously, that's amazing, because how can it do that when even a human radiologist or a human doctor can't do that?

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And then you think of the ethical conundrums like, OK, if AI is used for medical treatment algorithms, maybe AI is used to sort out organ transplant waiting lists.

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Who gets the transplant first based on AI? Can AI that's maybe biased by human biases and racial biases then affect who gets a transplant?

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So you think of all these things and obviously, you know, saying AI is biased or AI is racist is not fair on AI because it's built on data sets that we give it, which are naturally biased because we're biased.

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But it's just an interesting thing to think about how AI can be used for good and for bad.

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Like, you know, those Microsoft, I think it was Tabot that came out many years ago and it was meant to be this like kind of emo punk girl that people could chat to on Twitter and, you know, ended up saying like loads of, you know, fascist comments and it like supported Hitler.

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And basically the public twisted this table who was meant to be like this kind of really cheerful thing into something quite twisted.

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And, you know, besides all that, I think AI has a future in medicine, a huge future in just taking the burden off healthcare professionals, but also, you know, AI is capable of making kind of complex calculations far beyond the human brain.

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Like, you know, it's already beaten us in chess and all sorts of other games and daily things.

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So it only makes sense.

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It will be better at picking up and reading maybe CT scans, MRI scans, and picking up tiny cancers that we could never pick up, picking up which is the best treatment or chemotherapy for that patient based on their genetic makeup.

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So I think, yeah, it's incredible and it will change the face of medicine.

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There's loads of ethical considerations we need to take into account.

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Yeah, and like you said, right now, it's still really far away from any sort of like sentience or like the media portrayal of AI.

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But it sounds like there's already real world applications that can help support medical professionals.

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So you mentioned it can identify like racial characteristics potentially.

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I've also seen that it's done really well in more of like the analysis, whether it's like a static picture, it will be able to tell or diagnose with pretty high accuracy.

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Like, oh, does this person have melanoma or some other sort of disease?

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And then, like you said, then in the future, potentially, it can also start to recommend cures.

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And it's really interesting that you mentioned the ethical portion of it, because I think a lot of technologists are also thinking about that portion, because like as AI goes into more and more things like robots, specifically like military grade robots or drones.

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Right now, I think most of those are still like man controlled.

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So there's an operator behind the drone, especially with the war in Ukraine.

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But in the future, it's like, OK, we'll just deploy these autonomous drones.

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And like software has a bunch of issues.

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You can't really trust it that much.

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And in SF, they actually just authorized the release of robots with like deadly weapons.

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Yeah, I read that.

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Yeah, that's insane.

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That's like so dystopian.

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It's like Black Mirror type stuff.

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I know, I think that right now the implication is still like there's a human operator behind it.

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But then there's the whole like cognitive dissonance type thing.

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Like if you're playing a video game and you shoot someone compared to like holding a weapon in real life, I think there's a very, very clear difference in terms of like your emotions and what you're feeling.

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So I think it's, yeah, I don't know.

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It sounds like a very scary headline.

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I feel like there's more nuance to it that I probably don't know about.

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But like the headline, like killer robots being deployed.

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It's like, whoa, what's going on there?

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Yeah, I mean, that's the thing.

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I feel that when it comes to robots and AI, we're still at that stage where like, you know, can AI replace human instincts?

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Like, you know, that's the one reason why I'm not scared that as a surgeon, AI is going to replace me anytime soon.

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Because there's something about like a surgeon's gut instinct or a doctor's gut instinct that you cannot replace.

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It's like, you know, I'll come across occasionally a patient who has normal blood tests, normal CT scan, normal everything.

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But just my gut tells me that something's wrong.

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And we might just proceed with like a diagnostic surgery and we find something.

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You know, it doesn't happen very often, but it does happen.

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It's happened maybe three or four times in my career, but it's that gut instinct that leads to that diagnosis.

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And similarly, like, you know, say, you know, they've got police, autonomous AI, you know, kind of robot police.

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Maybe they just see things in black and white and they miss the nuance.

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So that's the kind of worry with things like AI for me.

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Yeah, and then the part that you mentioned, like that gut feeling, that specialty, I think a lot of people, until you're really knowledgeable in an area and have that experience, you can't really understand.

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It's like humans, naturally, we have like a gut instinct.

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You can kind of tell if someone is sketchy sometimes.

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Like, you can't quite put your finger on it, but you're like, this dude's giving it off with like a red flag.

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But then you can apply that same instinct.

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So obviously, Dr. Karan, who's very experienced in the medical field, has now developed that instinct for a lot of his diagnosis.

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But the same thing can be said for something, whether that's like business or investing or trading or something.

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Some people just, through years of experience, they can kind of tell.

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And you're not always able to explain it explicitly because it requires all this base knowledge and experience that you've had throughout your life.

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And without the same knowledge or experience, it's hard to convey exactly that to another person because they just, there's so much to build on that they don't have.

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But I think like a lot of the professional world actually runs on that.

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So it's instead of systems being built to work perfectly, it's actually a bunch of humans or individuals who are making it work smoothly by using a lot of these exceptions.

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Yeah, I always wondered, you know, what was the magic?

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What's the science in gut instinct?

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And actually, you know, a couple of years ago, I just kind of delved and went in a bit of a rabbit hole into this subject.

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And it's pretty interesting because, you know, it turns out that we probably use, you know, actually 90, 95% of our brain function is all kind of subconscious, you know, beyond the realms of our cognition.

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And all of the senses, the sensory stimuli that we hear, that we see, that we can smell, that we can feel and taste, you know, our brain filters out most of that stuff.

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And only gives us like the kind of distilled amount that we need to survive.

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Like, you know, you're crossing the road, it tells you whether the car is coming or not, and how firm the road is, like, whatever you need to survive.

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But there's other things like, hey, there's a kite in the background, there's a kid screaming somewhere, all that is drowned out, because it's not crucial to our survival.

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But it's that all just goes into like, the brain's memory banks. And it's there somewhere. And it's like, you know, firefighters can tell when the roof's about to collapse, it's a gut instinct, because they know from several years of those subconscious experiences, which are stored in their kind of libraries.

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And the brain uses that to calculate and extrapolate future of, you know, calculations, okay, this is going to happen, because previously that happened when this happened, it's all these micro calculations.

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And it's, you know, just crazy, how that all works. And we think gut instinct is just this kind of like a stroke of luck, or like, it's a guesswork. But actually, it's complex, unfathomable calculations that our brain just does that we can't, you know, specifically say, Oh, it's this.

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And, you know, we, if we don't understand how that gut instinct works, and how our brain works, how can we make an AI that is kind of sentient, because we don't really know how we work, you know, so I think the kind of for me, when people ask me, what's like, when are we going to get to that point, you know, that kind of point where AI overtakes humans, I don't know, I don't think it will happen anytime soon.

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And if it does, it will be because humans are enhancing themselves with kind of mechanical parts, you know, like the neural link type thing.

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Yeah, it's a common question I get as well as like, hey, you know, when our programmer is going to be out of a job, or like when our ex profession going to be out of a job, and people don't realize that it's like, we're very far away from that point.

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And it's more like AI can do really well within the constraints of like a game, because there's only a certain set of parameters or experiences or learnings or rules.

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But real life, there's an exponential amount of variables and data to consume.

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And we're just nowhere near that point right now.

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And I guess on shifting the topic a little bit, what do you enjoy doing in your free time?

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Not that you might have much of it, but like, we've talked a little bit about games.

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I'm just curious, like, what do you like to do for fun?

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Yeah, no, you're right.

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I mean, I would say, pre-pandemic, you know, kind of, I enjoyed, you know, going out a lot.

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But I would say that since 2020, I've been such like an introvert outside of social media, and I just kind of stayed at home.

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I literally, any free time I get, I try to get a workout when I can.

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And I just love going out with my dog.

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Like, I'm fortunate in that I live kind of in the countryside in the UK.

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I moved out of London years ago.

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And I don't miss London at all.

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So I live in the countryside and loads of forests near me.

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I just go for walks, like, long-ass walks with my dog, where I literally just contemplate things.

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You can probably hear my dog in the background when I was here.

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My ears are burning.

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But, yeah, I just like kind of being by myself.

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It sounds a bit kind of, you know, aloof and elusive.

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But, yeah, I like being by myself, just contemplating stuff.

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And more recently, I kind of set myself a challenge where I try to read as many books as I can in a year.

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I used to read a lot when I was younger.

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I kind of, the most, mainly the books I was reading over the last few years, like medical textbooks and research papers and things like that.

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But I kind of just wanted to read books again.

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So I've been kind of, you know, going back on that trend of just kind of reading books.

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And that's what I enjoy mainly, like really boring stuff.

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I mean, I don't think it's boring.

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I think the way society frames it, like they frame a lot of introverted hobbies as, like, boring.

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But I think that's really unfair because, like, reading a book is a really interesting activity.

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Like, you can experience other lifetimes or things that can never happen in real life.

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There are stories in books, and people love stories.

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And I think the whole, like, being by yourself thing, I can really relate.

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Like, I've always enjoyed being by myself.

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Like, I also enjoy hanging out with other people.

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But I think it's, like, a description I've heard that I somewhat agree with.

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It's, like, extroverts, when they hang out with other people, it's, like, they get recharged.

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Their energy levels go up.

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And then introverts, their energy levels go down.

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And mine definitely go down.

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So it's, like, I can hang out with other people to a certain extent before I'm, like, okay, let me just be by myself for a bit.

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Like, read a book or play a game or something.

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I mean, one of the things, I'm exactly like that.

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And also, another one thing I should mention is that, kind of, in the last three years, I've enjoyed, kind of, growing stuff and making stuff.

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In the sense of, I like to use my skills, skills that I don't have to develop them and make them better.

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Like, two things specifically I've done.

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Like, I don't really drink alcohol much.

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And, in fact, I've not had a drink for, like, three years.

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But, in my garden, I have a couple of apple trees.

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And they produce loads of apples.

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So I learned how to make apple cider.

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And that was something I've been doing for the last couple of years.

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Like, figuring out all the different equipment to buy.

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Or, like, the siphoning tube.

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The yeast.

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Watch concentration this.

00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:18.800
Brewer's yeast.

00:22:18.900 --> 00:22:19.360
This and that.

00:22:19.560 --> 00:22:20.900
And I made some pretty awesome cider.

00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:21.680
And I bottled them.

00:22:21.820 --> 00:22:25.660
And I've got, like, 50, 100 bottles of cider in my garage.

00:22:26.020 --> 00:22:31.880
And another thing is just, like, growing vegetables, aubergines, eggplant for people in America.

00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:36.440
You know, carrots and chilies and tomatoes.

00:22:37.020 --> 00:22:37.940
Make loads of salsa.

00:22:38.520 --> 00:22:41.180
So just weird stuff like that, which I've never tried.

00:22:42.040 --> 00:22:43.540
And, yeah, it's just weird.

00:22:43.660 --> 00:22:46.700
And, you know, I'm already prepped for the apocalypse if it ever comes.

00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:49.080
Yeah, that's awesome.

00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:58.560
I hear that, like, so the hobbies that you mentioned so far, like, taking long walks in nature, having a dog specifically, and then also doing light gardening.

00:22:58.560 --> 00:23:00.380
These are all amazing for your mental health.

00:23:00.460 --> 00:23:06.800
And I read how, like, it's extremely beneficial just for people to be out and about in nature specifically.

00:23:06.800 --> 00:23:09.020
Like, the light physical exercise.

00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:12.420
Like, you don't need to go crazy hard in the gym for these benefits.

00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:17.680
And then you also mentioned how you love to read as a kid, which I would kind of like to talk about.

00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:19.040
About that time in your life.

00:23:19.120 --> 00:23:21.540
Like, what did you think you were going to do growing up?

00:23:21.620 --> 00:23:24.380
Like, was being a doctor or your goal from, like, a really young age as well?

00:23:26.320 --> 00:23:27.440
Yeah, it's difficult to say.

00:23:27.540 --> 00:23:34.600
I mean, I wouldn't, I don't want to be cheesy and say it was my kind of, like, vocation that called to me.

00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:35.700
I mean, my mom's a doctor.

00:23:35.820 --> 00:23:37.160
She's a hematologist.

00:23:37.320 --> 00:23:43.240
So hematologists deal with, like, blood disorders, you know, blood cancers, bleeding disorders, things like that.

00:23:43.520 --> 00:23:49.180
So, you know, I always had that influence there in the background without, like, my parents pushing me.

00:23:49.180 --> 00:23:52.700
Like, the classic stereotype is, like, you know, Indian parents.

00:23:52.840 --> 00:23:56.060
Okay, you've got to become a doctor, lawyer, engineer, that kind of stuff.

00:23:56.220 --> 00:23:57.480
My parents were never like that.

00:23:59.040 --> 00:24:03.180
So, despite that, I still had, I mean, I heard amazing stories.

00:24:03.280 --> 00:24:08.320
My mom would tell me she, you know, worked in the hospital in many years and I'd hear all these stories.

00:24:08.320 --> 00:24:10.840
So, it would be, like, a kind of vibrant experience.

00:24:10.980 --> 00:24:12.220
Like, wow, that's like a doctor.

00:24:12.340 --> 00:24:13.360
And it was very heroic to me.

00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:15.240
And I was like, okay, that's definitely something I want to consider.

00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:20.540
And even at school, like, I naturally gravitated towards the subjects I was good at.

00:24:20.620 --> 00:24:23.100
Stuff like science, maths, chemistry.

00:24:23.280 --> 00:24:24.520
I enjoyed all of that stuff.

00:24:24.600 --> 00:24:27.080
So, I kind of naturally wandered along this path.

00:24:27.420 --> 00:24:31.080
But definitely one thing which always drove me towards that was a couple of things.

00:24:31.080 --> 00:24:37.400
I mean, one of the things was when I was growing up, I spent, like, most of my summers in India with my grandparents.

00:24:38.140 --> 00:24:45.100
And, you know, you walk along the streets of India, you see all sorts of crazy people who are handicapped and this and that.

00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.300
And even one of my neighbors actually had this, like, weird spinal deformity.

00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:50.720
And I was actually really close to her.

00:24:51.220 --> 00:24:55.140
And at that time, I kind of made this innocent childlike promise.

00:24:55.140 --> 00:24:58.920
Like, I'm going to grow up, become an orthopedic surgeon and, like, fix your spine.

00:24:59.420 --> 00:25:01.840
And I always wanted to become an orthopedic surgeon.

00:25:02.380 --> 00:25:06.760
And I did orthopedics when I was, you know, early years as a doctor and I really hated it.

00:25:07.260 --> 00:25:08.280
So, that never happened.

00:25:08.560 --> 00:25:11.980
But luckily, I mean, she got her spine sorted without my help.

00:25:12.340 --> 00:25:23.080
But, yeah, I mean, it's kind of like I always felt like I was probably destined in some respects with family influences and stuff that happened in my life to be a doctor.

00:25:23.420 --> 00:25:25.620
But I definitely considered other things.

00:25:25.620 --> 00:25:27.000
And even I'm not going to lie to you.

00:25:27.180 --> 00:25:34.640
Even throughout my time as a doctor over the last decade, there have been moments where I'm like, do I really want to be doing this?

00:25:34.700 --> 00:25:43.180
Because my peak years are being spent doing night shifts, seeing the most horrific thing in the hospital, people dying, the stress, not eating properly, not exercising.

00:25:43.820 --> 00:25:44.800
I don't know if I can do this.

00:25:44.840 --> 00:25:47.020
So, I've been going through those moments as well.

00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:48.880
Interesting.

00:25:50.660 --> 00:25:55.580
Yeah, I think for your origin story, that would have been almost picture perfect.

00:25:55.740 --> 00:25:57.640
Like, hey, we made this promise and then I fixed her.

00:25:58.080 --> 00:26:02.240
And, like, yeah, that'd be a, you know, a good article.

00:26:02.420 --> 00:26:03.140
Also, a good TikTok.

00:26:04.040 --> 00:26:13.580
But as far as, like, you talking about the stereotypes, like, yeah, I have a lot of, had a lot of Indian friends growing up and they were all kind of pressured very specifically.

00:26:13.800 --> 00:26:15.600
Like, parents were doctors, like, hey, you got to be a doctor.

00:26:15.740 --> 00:26:17.000
Doctor or bust, essentially.

00:26:17.860 --> 00:26:22.100
And then, you know, like, engineer lawyer, that's, like, kind of second, third tier.

00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:23.100
Like, these are okay.

00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:26.320
Like, you can still do those other things, but, you know, we want you to be a doctor.

00:26:27.320 --> 00:26:32.340
And it's cool to hear that your parents were a bit more relaxed about it and that you actually enjoyed the field.

00:26:32.340 --> 00:26:41.220
I think a lot of, I don't know why this is, maybe, like, societal standards, but, like, a lot of males seem to do better in math and science.

00:26:41.520 --> 00:26:45.760
And then girls seem to be shun those topics for some reason.

00:26:46.780 --> 00:26:48.640
And I read something a long time ago.

00:26:49.040 --> 00:26:50.620
I'm not sure how accurate it is anymore.

00:26:50.620 --> 00:27:00.840
But they, the hypothesis or what they found out was essentially that females, like, prior to, like, middle school or high school, I forget what the cutoff was.

00:27:01.760 --> 00:27:09.940
But they performed just as well as their male counterparts in math and sciences, pretty much all learning subjects.

00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:12.640
But at some point, they start to fall off.

00:27:12.800 --> 00:27:21.220
And I, anecdotally, I think it was mostly due to just, I don't know, general societal interest.

00:27:21.360 --> 00:27:24.580
So, like, a lot of guys, they're like, hey, you know, you should be, you should like math and science.

00:27:24.580 --> 00:27:28.220
Girls, you guys should like English and history and literature or whatever.

00:27:28.900 --> 00:27:31.300
But now I think that trend might be reversing.

00:27:31.420 --> 00:27:35.900
And it just seems like female population is doing better across all subjects.

00:27:35.900 --> 00:27:42.540
And, like, even in secondary education and college and university, they're just outperforming males in, like, everything.

00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:46.000
So, they're becoming more educated, getting better grades, et cetera, et cetera.

00:27:47.180 --> 00:27:51.600
Yeah, I mean, I think definitely your point there is right.

00:27:51.660 --> 00:27:53.660
I think it is a lot of societal pressure.

00:27:53.660 --> 00:28:02.660
Like, an example from surgery, you know, women, on average, have smaller pans than men, you know, right?

00:28:03.900 --> 00:28:11.540
And most of the surgical tools that we use, they're not really built for, you know, bespoke to the person.

00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:13.280
They're built for a standard size.

00:28:13.420 --> 00:28:19.740
And surgery is a very old craft and profession, you know, it's several centuries, if not older.

00:28:20.040 --> 00:28:30.660
And, you know, the typical surgeon was a man and a man from kind of probably an upper class of society who had the money to be trained and all that kind of stuff.

00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:44.340
And so, you know, it's that still patriarchal culture is somehow ingrained and institutionalized in surgery where, you know, male surgeons are, you know, assumed to be better in some way than female surgeons.

00:28:44.340 --> 00:28:46.020
And, like, that goes with the tools.

00:28:46.180 --> 00:28:49.240
Why aren't we getting tools for women as well?

00:28:49.320 --> 00:28:53.720
And the same reason all the surgical tools are predominantly for right-handers as well.

00:28:53.780 --> 00:28:54.700
There's no arm left-handed.

00:28:54.700 --> 00:29:02.960
So I sometimes struggle when I, early days of training in surgery, I struggled with using some of the tools because it would work slightly differently if you were left-handed.

00:29:03.080 --> 00:29:06.160
You had to either reverse your hand or just not use your left hand.

00:29:06.260 --> 00:29:10.200
In fact, one of my surgeons said, no, you're not left-handed in my operating room.

00:29:10.300 --> 00:29:12.380
You have to stitch right-handed only.

00:29:12.560 --> 00:29:13.660
I was like, what the hell?

00:29:14.760 --> 00:29:20.760
So, you know, like, society is still, well, surgery anyway, is very slow to change.

00:29:20.760 --> 00:29:29.980
And it's changing now, like, a lot of the new trainees that come in, it's like a 50-50 split between men and women, if not even more women, which is great.

00:29:30.460 --> 00:29:41.660
But, yeah, I think a lot of that in terms of, you know, women going towards kind of those STEM fields, it's probably a lot of societal pressure, you know, that's caused that weird distortion.

00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:52.460
Yeah, and I think, like you mentioned, the bias goes beyond just surgical tools, but even, like, the right versus left-handedness, like, the world is built for right-handed people.

00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:55.600
And then, and average-sized people, too, right?

00:29:55.600 --> 00:29:58.480
If you get too tall, you can't even walk through doorways.

00:29:58.820 --> 00:30:03.180
Or if you get too wide, you can't fit in a lot of more standard-sized things.

00:30:04.340 --> 00:30:10.640
And it's also, even for computer science, like, originally it was a woman's profession.

00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:15.060
Before it became prestigious, before people started to make money, it was predominantly women who programmed.

00:30:15.780 --> 00:30:18.260
And now it's, like, something crazy.

00:30:18.360 --> 00:30:22.620
Probably 80 to 90% of all people going into computer science are male.

00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:28.920
And it's seen as a very, like, kind of introverted, male-dominated type thing.

00:30:29.040 --> 00:30:32.580
Like, even in Silicon Valley, all these companies, they're a bunch of, like, awkward dudes.

00:30:32.800 --> 00:30:33.880
And it's weird, right?

00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:36.880
Because it wasn't always this way.

00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:40.900
So there was a point where it's like, okay, this is just another random job.

00:30:41.020 --> 00:30:43.420
And then, you know, mostly women were doing it.

00:30:43.460 --> 00:30:47.020
And then at some point, I don't know when this transition really happened.

00:30:47.020 --> 00:30:49.520
It's like, okay, well, now this is seen as, like, prestigious.

00:30:49.660 --> 00:30:51.040
Let's just get all the dudes in here now.

00:30:51.580 --> 00:30:52.920
So it's kind of weird.

00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:59.400
I think, like you mentioned before, with AI and having bias, it's, like, the data that we feed it, we are biased.

00:30:59.620 --> 00:31:01.360
And so we're feeding it biased information.

00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:07.340
Like, how could this AI, how could it develop any other worldview other than what we're already giving it?

00:31:07.380 --> 00:31:08.440
And it's, like, a biased one.

00:31:09.940 --> 00:31:10.900
Yeah, absolutely.

00:31:11.120 --> 00:31:14.860
I mean, just the world in which we're built.

00:31:14.860 --> 00:31:18.440
And I think it is slowly changing, which for the better.

00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:28.420
Like, you know, for example, people who were, you know, maybe decades ago wouldn't have been diagnosed with dyslexia or autism or ADHD.

00:31:28.420 --> 00:31:36.220
The kind of tools and diagnostic criteria weren't strong enough to identify these, you know, different conditions.

00:31:36.700 --> 00:31:44.940
And more recently, I had a friend of mine who's coming to the end of this training and they've got to sit this exam to kind of finish their surgical training.

00:31:45.360 --> 00:31:48.820
And you get four takes, you get four tries to finish that exam.

00:31:48.820 --> 00:31:55.880
Like, as in, you know, you can fail three times and you can still pass on the fourth and still, you know, be a fully qualified surgeon.

00:31:56.980 --> 00:31:59.360
He failed three times.

00:31:59.360 --> 00:32:01.840
So his last time was like, okay, you've got to pass now.

00:32:01.900 --> 00:32:07.160
Otherwise, you're never going to be a fully qualified surgeon, which would suck after 10 years of doing that.

00:32:07.800 --> 00:32:12.400
But someone recommended him to go get tested for dyslexia.

00:32:12.560 --> 00:32:18.540
And he got tested, found out that actually he had dyslexia and he probably needed, like, an extra time for each of those things.

00:32:18.580 --> 00:32:19.140
So it was unfair.

00:32:19.280 --> 00:32:27.800
So he basically had a, you know, blank slate again, they scrubbed off those three fails that he had and said, okay, you've got four goes again.

00:32:28.220 --> 00:32:32.640
And he passed it first time as soon as he had that extra half an hour or whatever it was to do it.

00:32:32.700 --> 00:32:42.440
So I think that we are becoming more accommodating, which is good because, you know, it's no longer, you know, there's this pace that everyone has to move at because that's not how it works.

00:32:42.600 --> 00:32:45.360
You know, you can't ask a fish to climb a tree.

00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:47.260
You can't ask a bird to swim in the sea.

00:32:47.420 --> 00:32:56.240
So, you know, people are different at different things and are better at certain things when they're allowed to take their own path to discover that.

00:32:56.780 --> 00:32:59.460
And I think that's one of the cool things about social media.

00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:04.700
You know, it's like a wildly non-traditional route.

00:33:04.820 --> 00:33:07.660
It's a completely alternative route for people to take as a career.

00:33:07.940 --> 00:33:08.940
And it's high risk.

00:33:09.060 --> 00:33:11.700
But people find themselves on social media.

00:33:11.700 --> 00:33:16.780
They're good at photography or they're good at cooking or, you know, they're just good at having conversations with people.

00:33:17.180 --> 00:33:20.780
People, you know, asking questions and they can make a career out of it.

00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:26.000
You know, they don't have to go to, you know, do a standard nine to five and whatever, you know.

00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:26.880
So I think that's great.

00:33:28.080 --> 00:33:34.820
Yeah, and it's really interesting how you mentioned how we kind of measure a lot of people by, you know, their ability to climb a tree.

00:33:35.040 --> 00:33:45.300
Because, like, even going through school, it's like you have the very traditional test-taking, book smarts type of memorization, route memorization, and some amounts of, like, problem solving here and there.

00:33:45.540 --> 00:33:55.160
But then when you look at a lot of people who are maybe more artistic or more hands-on or just learn in a different way, we are starting to be more accommodating for just the general education system.

00:33:55.360 --> 00:33:59.880
There are other routes other than just, hey, memorize this for the test.

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:00.480
Get it right.

00:34:00.800 --> 00:34:01.980
Do this multiple choice thing.

00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:07.940
Write this, you know, three-tiered structured essay in the way that we want in this, like, logical way.

00:34:09.340 --> 00:34:15.960
I think it's still a little slow to transition there because most education is probably still like that.

00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:24.720
But like you said, now people have an avenue to share their other talents and interests and not just share them but also find a community online.

00:34:24.720 --> 00:34:44.420
I think that, like, what people really underestimate is 15, 20 years ago, if you were this, like, odd, quirky person making videos in your bedroom or doing art or some sort of, like, non-standard hobby, like, you weren't into sports or you weren't into, like, what was cool at the time, you essentially had no community.

00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:50.320
Like, early internet, there were message boards and such, but it was hard to find people that were just like you.

00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:55.940
Nowadays, you can find a million people just like you with, like, click of a button and whatever your interest might be.

00:34:56.020 --> 00:35:02.860
Maybe it's, like, sculpting dolls or collecting old dolls or collecting, like, vintage buttons, like, literally anything.

00:35:02.940 --> 00:35:04.160
You can find a community for that.

00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:18.680
Yeah, and I think the great thing about it is, you know, even if you don't find your community because you're so niche, you know, you can literally attract people to that new niche that you've made.

00:35:18.680 --> 00:35:20.280
You're like, whoa, what the hell is this?

00:35:21.140 --> 00:35:21.900
That's incredible.

00:35:22.020 --> 00:35:23.120
I'm interested in this now.

00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:29.840
And, you know, you kind of, you spawned a whole new niche, creative niche, which is fantastic.

00:35:30.060 --> 00:35:35.800
And, you know, I think there's lots to be said for the evils and the good of social media.

00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:48.560
I mean, there's any number of trolls and toxic comments, and, you know, I'm sure we've both had hundreds, if not thousands of them, you know, across the time we've posted videos and been on social media.

00:35:48.680 --> 00:35:52.680
But, you know, overwhelmingly, they are the minority rather than the majority.

00:35:54.360 --> 00:36:02.960
But, you know, that is still an issue because even that one little comment can just kind of sometimes for some people make or break their day, you know.

00:36:03.020 --> 00:36:08.720
And in the past, I've certainly let it affect me more than I should have, just like one single comment on something.

00:36:08.820 --> 00:36:16.480
And, you know, the younger you are, the more influenced and, you know, your kind of views are distorted by that.

00:36:16.680 --> 00:36:22.560
And it's unfortunately led to some, you know, young people to take their lives, cyberbullying and all of that stuff.

00:36:22.740 --> 00:36:24.040
So, yeah, I don't know.

00:36:24.100 --> 00:36:27.260
I think there's still a way to go to make it like a safe space.

00:36:28.240 --> 00:36:35.360
Yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned this because this topic has come up time and time again in these podcasts where I've talked to other content creators.

00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:36.900
It's like everyone experiences it.

00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:39.440
There's always this level of hate that you get.

00:36:39.740 --> 00:36:40.360
It's just unavoidable.

00:36:41.240 --> 00:36:46.340
Like being on the internet, when you put yourself out there, I think there's a lot of ways to explain it.

00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:49.660
Like people see themselves as like not really talking to another person.

00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:50.760
It's like you're behind a keyboard.

00:36:51.160 --> 00:36:51.840
There's a screen.

00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:55.820
You don't get that immediate feedback of someone telling you that they're hurt or they're offended.

00:36:56.020 --> 00:37:01.520
For some people, like they're trying to get that reaction because either they feel hurt or they're trying to get attention in some way.

00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:05.440
And it's really interesting to hear people's coping mechanisms as well.

00:37:05.600 --> 00:37:09.820
Like some people, they try to make like their online identity disassociated from their real identity.

00:37:10.420 --> 00:37:14.600
Some people, Gary V's method is kind of interesting to me.

00:37:14.680 --> 00:37:18.000
He's like, oh yeah, I try to respond to it with positivity and love and whatever.

00:37:18.140 --> 00:37:19.160
I'm like, how do you do that?

00:37:19.160 --> 00:37:23.180
Like how do you, how do you, uh, Martin Luther King this?

00:37:23.240 --> 00:37:28.060
Like, I don't think I'm that, that, uh, altruistic or what have you.

00:37:28.300 --> 00:37:32.780
Um, and then my approach has really just been, which might sound more similar to yours.

00:37:32.780 --> 00:37:40.120
Like as I've grown older, I cared a lot less about what others think of me, uh, especially like a pseudo anonymous person online.

00:37:40.300 --> 00:37:48.360
And also just growing up in the video game era, playing games in the nineties and early two thousands, like trash talk and hating on each other.

00:37:48.660 --> 00:37:50.380
Like this type of stuff is normal.

00:37:50.380 --> 00:37:57.520
Like the reason I even learned how to type quickly is because I had to trash talk someone quickly enough before they left the game.

00:37:57.520 --> 00:38:00.520
So it's like, before they rage quit, I'm like, Hey, you suck.

00:38:00.600 --> 00:38:01.020
Like you're terrible.

00:38:01.520 --> 00:38:04.040
It's like, I have to take extremely quickly to get that out there.

00:38:04.040 --> 00:38:24.020
Um, yeah, I mean, uh, yeah, I think more and more, I just kind of ignore it and it's that kind of overcoming that negativity bias, that kind of reflex that we have that says, yes, this one comment out of a thousand positive comments, this one negative comment overwhelms the other thousand.

00:38:24.180 --> 00:38:26.280
It's not that it's just kind of ignoring it.

00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:35.020
And occasionally what I even do now is, uh, I had a racist comment recently and I just turned it into a, like a good piece of content and I was like, yeah, that negative content.

00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:35.580
Okay.

00:38:35.640 --> 00:38:36.540
I've acknowledged it.

00:38:36.900 --> 00:38:39.600
I've let it affect me no matter what you can do.

00:38:39.660 --> 00:38:44.420
It's going to affect you, but it's just how much you allow it to affect you and, um, you know, control your emotions.

00:38:44.420 --> 00:38:46.380
And I thought, okay, that's a shitty comment.

00:38:46.500 --> 00:38:51.040
It's a kind of a micro dose of stress and we will have micro doses of stress throughout the day.

00:38:51.240 --> 00:38:56.260
You know, your phone runs out of battery, you know, you're running out of petrol in your car, whatever little things.

00:38:56.860 --> 00:38:57.660
Stub your toe.

00:38:58.200 --> 00:39:04.320
Uh, so that little micro dose of stress, I thought, you know, let me just flip that into a positive and educate people and make a video out of it.

00:39:04.620 --> 00:39:10.240
And yeah, the video gets a few hundred thousand views and yeah, I'll just, that's kind of exercise the demons, you know?

00:39:10.240 --> 00:39:15.720
And, uh, yeah, I'll just look out for negative comments now and, uh, to make good pieces of content out of them.

00:39:16.040 --> 00:39:16.400
Yeah.

00:39:16.460 --> 00:39:17.140
I saw that video.

00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:17.740
It was pretty good.

00:39:18.140 --> 00:39:19.780
Um, yeah, it was the fun of it.

00:39:20.200 --> 00:39:26.260
And I think that, like you said, um, another coping strategy I heard someone say was like, oh, you can take these negative things.

00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:29.100
Negative comments that like feel the algorithm that actually getting you views.

00:39:29.200 --> 00:39:31.360
You can also view it in a slight positive that way.

00:39:31.860 --> 00:39:36.480
Um, but I want to talk a bit more about what you said about it affecting people's mental health.

00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:42.560
And I've read things about how like even a small negative comment, it's like a mental slap to your face effectively.

00:39:43.140 --> 00:39:51.780
Um, and especially a lot of young creators that are on social media who are probably a bit more influenced, probably don't have as much of a solid self identity yet.

00:39:52.180 --> 00:39:59.860
Um, that are potentially really being negatively affected by all of this attention and especially negative attention.

00:39:59.860 --> 00:40:02.400
Like some creators attract a lot more controversy than others.

00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:11.060
Some actually their content is based off of controversy, uh, whether that's, uh, that's strictly calling out one group or another.

00:40:11.420 --> 00:40:15.380
Um, cause I think that whole like us versus them thing, that's never going to go away.

00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:18.600
And they found a way to like, Hey, this is a way to consistently go viral.

00:40:18.600 --> 00:40:24.800
This is a, if I say something controversial, a lot of people are going to comment and watch the video and debate and share and stitch and duet, whatever.

00:40:24.860 --> 00:40:29.960
Um, I guess, what are your thoughts on like this next generation coming up?

00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:33.020
That's so living really in a digital world.

00:40:33.060 --> 00:40:37.040
So I think millennials were the last group to really be somewhat disconnected.

00:40:37.040 --> 00:40:42.580
Like we can still remember a time before Google or before the internet was just ubiquitous.

00:40:42.580 --> 00:40:54.580
And nowadays it's like kids get their first cell phone at probably like five or six, you know, they have a tick tock by the time they're able to like type, uh, like what's, what's going to happen with this next generation.

00:40:54.860 --> 00:40:57.000
I mean, that's so crazy.

00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:59.860
I had my first phone and it was like a proper brick phone.

00:40:59.960 --> 00:41:03.020
I think it was like a Nokia, Nokia 6210 or something.

00:41:03.020 --> 00:41:05.400
And it was when I was 14, 15 years old.

00:41:05.900 --> 00:41:09.900
Um, and I only had my first camera phone when I was like 18 at university.

00:41:10.420 --> 00:41:19.340
Um, I think it is, yeah, it's really frightening in some regards that, you know, people who are getting younger and younger are being exposed to social media.

00:41:19.340 --> 00:41:24.160
And, you know, social media is full of trash as well as treasure.

00:41:24.160 --> 00:41:30.280
Uh, and, you know, you want to limit how much trash you expose your kids to or the younger generation to.

00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:44.460
But I think also that comes with the added caveats that I think the younger generation nowadays compared to 10, 20 years ago are a bit thicker skinned, uh, when it comes to social media.

00:41:44.460 --> 00:41:50.820
Cause you get this kind of desensitization of content, you know, and they see so much, it's not a good thing, mine sometimes.

00:41:50.820 --> 00:41:56.660
So they see so much violence and trauma and hate that there is some desensitization of that.

00:41:57.020 --> 00:42:07.420
Like, you know, if I, if I saw some of the stuff I'm seeing online now, 20 years ago, I would have literally been like, whoa, you know, I would have been like shocked.

00:42:07.540 --> 00:42:14.660
I'm not shocked now because I've seen all of that stuff and I'm sure a 14 year old watching it now probably isn't shocked, but should they be watching that?

00:42:14.720 --> 00:42:15.220
I don't know.

00:42:15.780 --> 00:42:26.940
Um, I think, you know, I, I've thought about this a lot one day when I have my own kids and I grew and I, you know, have them grow up in a kind of a social media dominated world.

00:42:27.700 --> 00:42:31.160
I certainly wouldn't want them appearing in my videos.

00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:32.060
That's for sure.

00:42:32.600 --> 00:42:35.320
Uh, you know, I wouldn't want any of that.

00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:38.060
I wouldn't want my family appearing in my video.

00:42:38.220 --> 00:42:41.280
The only family member I'd have in my videos would be my dog.

00:42:41.940 --> 00:42:45.360
Um, and I'll, I don't know.

00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:49.720
I wouldn't, you know, you see, you talk a lot about these parents that limit their kids' social media.

00:42:49.860 --> 00:42:57.120
I don't think that's a solution maybe necessarily to limit their social media use because that can then drive them to then seek it out even more.

00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:00.040
Um, I honestly don't know the answer.

00:43:00.040 --> 00:43:05.800
I think lots of the burden rests with kind of social media companies to do their parts.

00:43:06.460 --> 00:43:19.020
In the number one thing is this might sound very kind of borderline fascist and dystopian, but, you know, I think some people should be made to verify their profiles on sign up.

00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:28.680
Like, you know, you've got to go through like a, um, a check where you've got to prove that you are that person and you've got to register with your real name and with your photo.

00:43:28.780 --> 00:43:34.340
You don't have to have your photo on your profile, but for the checks to be verified, you need to prove who you are.

00:43:34.420 --> 00:43:46.300
Like, you know, you do like these, um, if you're opening up a, like, um, one of those, um, like a Monzo account or something like that, uh, you know, a Revolut account, you need to send a photo of your face and your driving license and stuff.

00:43:46.680 --> 00:43:48.840
So maybe something similar for social media.

00:43:48.840 --> 00:44:01.760
So if something does happen and that account user 28699 is just commenting like racist stuff and misogynistic stuff and, you know, whatever stuff they can be tracked down.

00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:07.620
So there is some sanctions, they're not without impunity, you know, they can't just go on doing whatever.

00:44:07.780 --> 00:44:19.200
So I think that will actually help level the playing field to some regard because now people can comment whatever they want without any, you know, worry of sanctions or any negative consequences.

00:44:19.660 --> 00:44:26.160
And I think that gives rise to more and more, you know, wilder scenarios in social media where people can do whatever they want.

00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:27.280
Yeah.

00:44:27.300 --> 00:44:36.020
It's really interesting because I've heard other creators say something similar where it's like one way to limit the amount of hate is to actually add some sort of real repercussions.

00:44:36.260 --> 00:44:40.220
And you've seen older social media eventually trend towards this.

00:44:40.380 --> 00:44:45.600
So Facebook, like they require you to upload your ID now and they require you to be who you say you are effectively.

00:44:45.900 --> 00:44:48.940
You can't just willy nilly create hundreds or thousands of accounts.

00:44:49.520 --> 00:44:55.940
Um, and I think the kind of cycle that this goes through is then eventually a new social media pops up where they're more interested in their numbers, their engagement.

00:44:56.500 --> 00:45:01.240
Um, you know, they don't care about a lot of the moderation yet until they've grown bigger and that becomes a problem.

00:45:01.380 --> 00:45:06.820
So it's almost a cycle where it's like when you're first starting out, you don't care what type of engagement.

00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:12.940
You just want more engagement, more comments, more views, more shares, more users, um, even though there's so many bot users.

00:45:12.940 --> 00:45:19.380
And I feel like when a platform goes through bot bandwaves, I notice that the views kind of decrease drastically.

00:45:19.640 --> 00:45:30.060
Um, but they can also, like if your video gets a lot of bot views and get a lot of these bot comments, that also kills your engagement because they're just leaving the comment, watching for like a split microsecond and then, uh, scrolling away.

00:45:30.060 --> 00:45:38.740
Um, so it's, yeah, I think it's a moderation is a really tough problem and it's something that no company has done that well.

00:45:38.780 --> 00:45:49.220
And then the people who are actually moderating the content, they develop, develop all sorts of psychological problems because they're watching the most disgusting things you can imagine like on a daily basis.

00:45:49.220 --> 00:45:54.540
And that's their job to like, okay, let me watch the fifth beheading of today or something insane.

00:45:54.540 --> 00:46:04.060
Right. Um, and then like what YouTube has done with their whole AI way of doing, cause there's no way they can moderate billions of hours of content uploaded daily.

00:46:04.220 --> 00:46:17.560
Um, same thing with TikTok probably is then, but then that has its own pitfalls because then you flag too many things or you have people who abuse it, like abuse the copyright strike system or people who are just trolls.

00:46:17.560 --> 00:46:25.120
Like you said, like even in popular streamers, they get swatted, which is like effectively a fake domestic terrorism call.

00:46:25.240 --> 00:46:33.320
And so the military police come in and raid their home and it's, it's a chronic problem among popular streamers.

00:46:33.800 --> 00:46:38.240
Um, and you have to know how to protect yourself, but it's not like super obvious how to do that.

00:46:38.240 --> 00:46:41.320
And people, I mean, how do people know where these streamers live?

00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:50.980
It's surprisingly easy to find out information about you, no matter where, like assuming you've had any sort of online presence at all.

00:46:50.980 --> 00:46:58.220
Like if you've had a credit card, if you've had a data leak, like most likely we've had, each had several, like all of our private information.

00:46:58.220 --> 00:47:06.280
If someone wanted to find it, like you could find it, whether that's on the dark web or wherever, like it's, and even if you like move to a new location, like they can track your flights.

00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:08.900
So they can track your ID, they can track your credit card payments.

00:47:08.900 --> 00:47:11.160
Like, and these are young kids too, right?

00:47:11.200 --> 00:47:11.780
That are doing this.

00:47:11.820 --> 00:47:16.900
It's not even like some sophisticated hacker or cybersecurity analyst.

00:47:16.900 --> 00:47:18.200
It's just like a 13 year old person.

00:47:18.260 --> 00:47:18.800
He's like, I'm bored.

00:47:18.920 --> 00:47:21.860
I'm just going to do this because, you know, I get kicked out of it.

00:47:22.240 --> 00:47:28.320
So I think the problem, yeah, it's, it's, it's a tough one to solve for sure.

00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:36.260
Um, and I think even fraud, there's a ton of fraud that happens, especially for people who make content that involves money in any way.

00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:46.860
So whether that's like crypto or finance or even like mentorship is a crazy amount of people who are looking for help that do get scammed and it's an entire business.

00:47:46.860 --> 00:47:55.500
Like I've seen people create entire profiles that are just reposting content or recreating like a Facebook page or just essentially preying on people.

00:47:55.620 --> 00:48:00.440
Um, and then like most people won't fall for this, but then there's so many tactics and tricks that they use.

00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:08.000
Like they purposely misspell things because they're targeting people who don't have like that critical thinking or that way to like judge the information for themselves.

00:48:08.640 --> 00:48:12.340
Um, and to respond to what you said earlier, like, what can we do about this?

00:48:12.380 --> 00:48:13.540
I think there's kind of two prongs.

00:48:13.640 --> 00:48:21.100
So there's a social media platforms that have to take some level of accountability, either hire more people, develop more technology, do some sort of verification.

00:48:21.100 --> 00:48:21.580
Who knows?

00:48:22.120 --> 00:48:30.200
Uh, but then also on like the individual side, not just from the social media aspect, but also from like the consuming information perspective.

00:48:30.200 --> 00:48:33.160
Like there's, like you said, there's so much trash on the internet.

00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:36.220
Um, there's some treasure, but you have to be able to sift through it.

00:48:36.340 --> 00:48:44.420
And I think the one thing that is really lacking in just the general populace pretty much for forever is just critical thinking skills.

00:48:44.660 --> 00:48:48.900
Like when someone sends me something, I have a, my own filter is like, does this make logical sense?

00:48:49.260 --> 00:48:50.780
What, is there a potential motive behind this?

00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:54.160
What's the news media article that's like pumping this out?

00:48:54.340 --> 00:49:00.420
Like, I think most people in the West, we only get our information from Western media outlets.

00:49:00.420 --> 00:49:03.500
So like we have a very Westernized view of the world.

00:49:03.820 --> 00:49:09.700
Um, and then similar with people in the East, and it's like, if you digest a bunch of different news sources, like all news is biased.

00:49:10.020 --> 00:49:21.220
Unless it's like from individuals maybe who don't have some sort of political agenda, but like the news that we consume on TV and mainstream media, it's like they have an agenda.

00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:22.780
They have someone telling them what to do.

00:49:22.860 --> 00:49:24.680
They have like a spin on it.

00:49:24.700 --> 00:49:26.380
They're trying to push something.

00:49:26.380 --> 00:49:26.680
Right.

00:49:27.140 --> 00:49:31.880
Um, so it's, yeah, I think it's, I don't know how we get to that point.

00:49:31.880 --> 00:49:35.200
Cause I think it, it's a lot easier just to be like, oh, I agree with this.

00:49:35.200 --> 00:49:36.980
It's like, oh, I'm just left or I'm right.

00:49:37.200 --> 00:49:42.660
Uh, I'm just going to take the stance of whatever my political party tells me, or I don't know.

00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:44.120
I mean, that's the thing.

00:49:44.160 --> 00:49:44.980
That's the interesting thing.

00:49:44.980 --> 00:50:00.560
I mean, there was that, um, scandal with Cambridge Analytica and Facebook where, you know, the kind of, uh, political involvement and using the kind of, um, you know, algorithms and the kind of data to kind of track people and influence people on Facebook and all that kind of stuff.

00:50:00.560 --> 00:50:14.920
I mean, that is the future where people, you know, we, we hacked that psychology of like, uh, likes and dislikes and what kind of content they consume and use that content to then influence people.

00:50:14.920 --> 00:50:23.300
Whether that's, um, you know, giving rise to the, the future of influencers who are paid by governments to influence other people.

00:50:23.300 --> 00:50:37.300
Uh, you know, I think you saw, um, during this first wave of this Ukraine Russia conflict, I think these Russian influencers were given these scripts to use and very popular influences.

00:50:37.300 --> 00:50:45.060
And they kind of gave this very standardized governmental type script and every, those Russian influencers said the same thing.

00:50:45.060 --> 00:50:56.300
So that was like the kind of early wave of that kind of stuff happening, but obviously in a more subtle way, you know, someone can just make a video about something without putting hashtag ad or paid partnership.

00:50:56.300 --> 00:51:07.300
And just comment on something going on and something in the world that's paid for by a government that wants, you know, or maybe a roster of 12 influences to say that.

00:51:07.300 --> 00:51:10.660
So they influence like, you know, maybe a hundred million people.

00:51:10.660 --> 00:51:16.300
Um, so yeah, it's quite, it's quite scary what you can do just with the power of speech and thoughts, especially online.

00:51:16.300 --> 00:51:20.300
It's all amplified it's, um, you know, contemporaneous.

00:51:20.300 --> 00:51:25.300
You can, you're not restricted by geography or time or distance or anything.

00:51:25.300 --> 00:51:28.300
So you can reach the entire world.

00:51:28.300 --> 00:51:45.300
I think that's one of the good things about that is that not about the political swaying, but more about, you know, when it comes to COVID information, I think COVID without social media, contrary to popular opinion, could have been even worse than it was.

00:51:45.300 --> 00:51:54.300
You know, if you think back to like, um, I think there was an interesting study as well, looking at the previous waves of like SARS and MERS and all these kinds of things.

00:51:54.300 --> 00:51:57.300
We didn't really have social media such a big thing back then.

00:51:57.300 --> 00:52:02.300
So it became a bigger deal, but now it's like, Oh God, there's something going on in China.

00:52:02.300 --> 00:52:03.300
Now it's in Italy.

00:52:03.300 --> 00:52:04.300
Now it's here.

00:52:04.300 --> 00:52:07.300
And it kind of spread on social media like a virus.

00:52:07.300 --> 00:52:11.300
So people were aware of it before and people were feeding each other things.

00:52:11.300 --> 00:52:14.300
And that's how governments are connecting and all sorts of things.

00:52:14.300 --> 00:52:17.300
So it may be improved people's understanding of certain things.

00:52:17.300 --> 00:52:23.300
Um, and maybe without social media, you wouldn't have people to debunk myths and misinformation.

00:52:23.300 --> 00:52:26.300
So that's where it's like a tool for good and for evil.

00:52:26.300 --> 00:52:31.300
And I think we still haven't figured out how to prevent the evil and boost the good more.

00:52:31.300 --> 00:52:32.300
Yeah.

00:52:32.300 --> 00:52:40.300
Like you said, it's like a double-edged sword because not only is that good information spread more quickly, but also the misinformation.

00:52:40.300 --> 00:52:42.300
As you mentioned, it can also spread extremely quickly.

00:52:42.300 --> 00:52:47.300
Um, and then, uh, to your point earlier about the political shenanigans.

00:52:47.300 --> 00:52:53.300
So Twitter recently, it was revealed that they do take down information based on government requests.

00:52:53.300 --> 00:52:59.300
So both parties, like they can, they request this private company to remove things.

00:52:59.300 --> 00:53:08.300
People have to realize that like these companies, the private companies have huge sway on public opinion, uh, whether that's Twitter or TikTok or YouTube.

00:53:08.300 --> 00:53:14.300
Uh, I feel like news are, news sites are becoming less and less influential among the younger generation.

00:53:14.300 --> 00:53:18.300
I think among older people, they're still like the number one top sources.

00:53:18.300 --> 00:53:26.300
So I think places like BBC or CNBC or Fox news or whatever, most people in like forties plus probably watch that stuff.

00:53:26.300 --> 00:53:31.300
But people who are younger, I don't know anyone my age or younger that tunes into that, right?

00:53:31.300 --> 00:53:37.300
We're getting our information from Twitter, from TikTok or Reddit, like from other people almost in real time too.

00:53:37.300 --> 00:53:41.300
And much quicker than these news publications can pump it out.

00:53:41.300 --> 00:53:42.300
Cause like they're doing it as a job.

00:53:42.300 --> 00:53:45.300
They might be delayed by like a couple hours or a couple of days.

00:53:45.300 --> 00:53:51.300
But for people who are online, like you're getting that information, the hour up, if not like the minute that happens.

00:53:51.300 --> 00:53:53.300
Cause people are also rushing to post it.

00:53:53.300 --> 00:53:55.300
Cause they're like, Hey, let me get that.

00:53:55.300 --> 00:53:58.300
Let me get those upvotes, those likes, the like views or whatever.

00:53:58.300 --> 00:53:58.300
Right.

00:53:58.300 --> 00:54:02.300
Like people, I think content creators, we're also like somewhat addicted to the numbers.

00:54:02.300 --> 00:54:07.300
Like these numbers going up and that line going straight up to the right.

00:54:07.300 --> 00:54:16.300
Um, but yeah, I was, I was a lot more early days of TikTok, social media, a lot more addicted to that numbers game less.

00:54:16.300 --> 00:54:29.300
So now, like, I just, I don't really care anymore, um, about the numbers because, you know, I thought a while ago that I'd be happy when I reached a hundred thousand.

00:54:29.300 --> 00:54:32.300
I wasn't, I was happy when I reached a million.

00:54:32.300 --> 00:54:34.300
I wasn't two, three, four.

00:54:34.300 --> 00:54:35.300
You can keep going.

00:54:35.300 --> 00:54:40.300
You know, you can have this nebulous target that you want 10 million or 20 million.

00:54:40.300 --> 00:54:46.300
But the honest truth is, if you're not happy with a hundred thousand, you won't be happy with 10 million.

00:54:46.300 --> 00:54:57.300
You know, and that goes the same for money or anything, you know, not saying that you shouldn't have ambition and keep reaching for more, but you should enjoy that position you're in.

00:54:57.300 --> 00:55:08.300
You know, like, I'm enjoying the fact that I've done this on social media and it's incredible what I've achieved and, but I'm not disappointed now with what I have achieved.

00:55:08.300 --> 00:55:18.300
Even if it completely flops from now on end, I don't really mind because, you know, I've had this nice journey of learn things about myself, about social media creation.

00:55:18.300 --> 00:55:25.300
And so now I'm more interested in making content that would maybe have an impact and that I like to post about.

00:55:25.300 --> 00:55:27.300
And if people like it, so be it.

00:55:27.300 --> 00:55:30.300
If people don't like it, I had fun making it at any rate.

00:55:30.300 --> 00:55:47.300
Instead of trying to like, you know, make something that will go viral that I don't care about anymore, because if you keep chasing some, you know, intangible targets where you're chasing the numbers and the likes, you're never satisfied in yourself.

00:55:47.300 --> 00:55:50.300
Yeah, you said it completely correct.

00:55:50.300 --> 00:55:59.300
Um, and for like a lot of people who haven't hit that goal yet, you might think like, Oh, achieving X, Y, Z is going to make me happy or satisfied.

00:55:59.300 --> 00:56:03.300
Uh, but then you realize effectively, like the happiness is very short lived.

00:56:03.300 --> 00:56:03.300
Sure.

00:56:03.300 --> 00:56:08.300
You might be happy for like a day, a week or even a month, but that eventually fades and becomes the new norm.

00:56:08.300 --> 00:56:13.300
And you realize that, like you said, it's really journey before destination.

00:56:13.300 --> 00:56:16.300
And it's like, if you're not enjoying what you're doing, like, what's the point of it?

00:56:16.300 --> 00:56:21.300
And I also think that, uh, what you said at the end is really important for content creators.

00:56:21.300 --> 00:56:24.300
And it's really the thing that keeps a lot of people going.

00:56:24.300 --> 00:56:27.300
Cause you see a lot of people burnout cause they'll be making so much content.

00:56:27.300 --> 00:56:29.300
And then they're like, okay, I need to take a break.

00:56:29.300 --> 00:56:31.300
I can't do this anymore.

00:56:31.300 --> 00:56:33.300
Not good for my mental health, et cetera, et cetera.

00:56:33.300 --> 00:56:47.300
Um, but then when you just create content, when you feel like it, when you don't worry too much about the results, I feel like those are the type of people that actually last a lot longer in content creation, because then you're not so tied to the numbers and then you don't have a specific goal for yourself.

00:56:47.300 --> 00:56:55.300
Uh, but, uh, contradictory in, but the contradiction is that you actually do better that way.

00:56:55.300 --> 00:57:11.300
Somehow it's like, like we mentioned way earlier before, like people have this way to unconsciously sift through information and people can tell when you're being genuine compared to like when you're reading out for script, unless you're an amazing actor, which I am not.

00:57:11.300 --> 00:57:23.300
So it's like people can almost tell when you're making something like the energy that you give off when it's something that you enjoy compared to like, okay, you can tell.

00:57:23.300 --> 00:57:27.300
One of the most important examples of this is when you see sponsored ads on TikTok.

00:57:27.300 --> 00:57:29.300
Like it can even be a super famous person.

00:57:29.300 --> 00:57:33.300
Like I saw some Katy Perry ad had like no views, no engagement, no likes, no comments.

00:57:33.300 --> 00:57:37.300
Like that company definitely spent like a million dollars or whatever on this ad.

00:57:37.300 --> 00:57:38.300
Right.

00:57:38.300 --> 00:57:39.300
It just flops.

00:57:39.300 --> 00:57:40.300
Cause people are like, this is fake.

00:57:40.300 --> 00:57:41.300
We don't care about this.

00:57:41.300 --> 00:57:46.300
Like this is, this is like old Instagram, social media, where it's like new social media.

00:57:46.300 --> 00:57:53.300
It's more about like these people that you've formed like a genuine connection with or like a parasocial relationship with or whatever.

00:57:53.300 --> 00:57:59.300
Um, and you care about the opinion, not just because they're famous or wealthy, uh, but because you value their knowledge.

00:57:59.300 --> 00:58:04.300
It's like, you trust that they're actually not selling you some garbage.

00:58:04.300 --> 00:58:08.300
Um, but then you, you mentioned the like paid and sponsored thing.

00:58:08.300 --> 00:58:10.300
I've noticed lots of people don't do that.

00:58:10.300 --> 00:58:14.300
Like even really big people where it's so obvious, like this is clearly a paid ad.

00:58:14.300 --> 00:58:16.300
Like this is definitely illegal.

00:58:16.300 --> 00:58:20.300
I think that TikTok will crack down on it eventually.

00:58:20.300 --> 00:58:23.300
Um, but I guess hasn't gotten in enough trouble yet.

00:58:23.300 --> 00:58:25.300
But like, I, I see a ton of that.

00:58:25.300 --> 00:58:28.300
I mean, I, I, the thing that irks me the most is.

00:58:28.300 --> 00:58:34.300
When doctors promote things, which they clearly should not be promoting.

00:58:34.300 --> 00:58:42.300
Like, uh, you know, I've seen doctors promote all sorts of supplements from collagen supplements to ashwagandha to turmeric.

00:58:42.300 --> 00:58:45.300
And I'm like, why are you doing that?

00:58:45.300 --> 00:58:55.300
Because you know, and I know, and a lot of other people know that, you know, there's so many other low handing fruits you could offer people first.

00:58:55.300 --> 00:59:00.300
You know, you could promote other things that they can do their sleep hygiene, their gut health.

00:59:00.300 --> 00:59:05.300
But you're promoting turmeric as some magic bullet or some, or collagen or ashwagandha.

00:59:05.300 --> 00:59:07.300
And yeah, you're being paid for it.

00:59:07.300 --> 00:59:12.300
But you basically putting a price on your integrity and your honesty.

00:59:12.300 --> 00:59:15.300
And that's, that really irks me.

00:59:15.300 --> 00:59:18.300
Yeah, I, I completely agree with you.

00:59:18.300 --> 00:59:29.300
It's like, there's almost this negative incentive because it's like, once you get to a certain size, and I think a lot of people are trying to do social media as a career.

00:59:29.300 --> 00:59:43.300
So like, you, you're obviously very successful, you have a profession, you are a doctor, but there's some people who purely claiming to be a doctor, or they're claiming medical expertise, because their goal is to become famous or to eventually sell these things or to like make money.

00:59:43.300 --> 00:59:52.300
And I've seen the same thing from financial creators, like they'll take very sketchy sponsorships, and a lot of people took a lot of very sketchy crypto sponsorships.

00:59:52.300 --> 01:00:03.300
And it's because they offer a lot of money, like these things that they're very high profit margin, they're like, hey, we can pay this person five figures to promote this thing, because we know we're going to make that ROI.

01:00:03.300 --> 01:00:14.300
Like, I think supplements are actually one of the highest profit margin items possible as like a white label sale, which is why there's so many supplement companies.

01:00:14.300 --> 01:00:27.300
And then as far as like financial products, like, even the more legitimate ones, most people don't need, but because they pay a lot of money, all these like finance influencers like, oh, yeah, go sign up for this robo advisor thing.

01:00:27.300 --> 01:00:28.300
That's what I did.

01:00:28.300 --> 01:00:29.300
It's like, no, you didn't.

01:00:29.300 --> 01:00:33.300
Like, you're clearly too smart to know that this is legitimate, right?

01:00:33.300 --> 01:00:35.300
Like, you're only doing this for the money.

01:00:35.300 --> 01:00:40.300
But again, it's hard because it's like, oh, especially gambling.

01:00:40.300 --> 01:00:42.300
Gambling probably irks me the most.

01:00:42.300 --> 01:00:49.300
Like, as someone who like had a previous gambling addiction, I know how like ruinous it can be for your life.

01:00:49.300 --> 01:00:53.300
It's not even a fact of like, oh, min-maxing or optimization at that point.

01:00:53.300 --> 01:00:55.300
At that point, it's like, this is a literal scam.

01:00:55.300 --> 01:00:57.300
This is like one of their original sins.

01:00:57.300 --> 01:01:01.300
Like, and it's like the audience is young kids.

01:01:01.300 --> 01:01:05.300
Like, you're like neutering their life before they've even gotten started.

01:01:05.300 --> 01:01:07.300
It's crazy.

01:01:07.300 --> 01:01:10.300
And people get a pass for it somehow too.

01:01:10.300 --> 01:01:13.300
They're like, oh, yeah, well, you know, they're getting the bag or they're.

01:01:13.300 --> 01:01:15.300
Yeah, that's what I don't get.

01:01:15.300 --> 01:01:21.300
It's like they're getting the bag at your cost or the cost of your friends and followers.

01:01:21.300 --> 01:01:32.300
And that whole spectrum of people who do ads, like it can go to harmless ads where someone's like saying, hey, I wear this whatever shitty headband that can do this.

01:01:32.300 --> 01:01:44.300
To the other extreme where like you mentioned the gambling, which are actually dangerous or like vaping products or even, you know, most recently like liver king saying that, you know, I'm not on steroids.

01:01:44.300 --> 01:01:49.300
So buy all these supplements that I use to become like this and look like this.

01:01:49.300 --> 01:01:54.300
So, you know, like basically lying and cheating.

01:01:54.300 --> 01:01:59.300
So I think immediately, like I'm not a fan of cancel culture.

01:01:59.300 --> 01:02:01.300
Like I don't, you know, that's not a nice thing to do to anyone.

01:02:01.300 --> 01:02:21.300
But like, you know, I don't think the kind of caveat to that is, okay, don't cancel that person, but also stop giving that person any more airtime because how can, it's very difficult to trust someone once they've kind of been exposed as trying to scam you or trying to cheat you in some way.

01:02:21.300 --> 01:02:28.300
Which a lot of these, you know, people end up doing so, okay, don't cancel them and make their lives miserable.

01:02:28.300 --> 01:02:34.300
But yeah, maybe just cast them aside because like, what the fuck they've, they're trying to make money from you.

01:02:34.300 --> 01:02:36.300
They don't, you know, give a shit about you.

01:02:36.300 --> 01:02:38.300
So why should you give a shit about them?

01:02:38.300 --> 01:02:39.300
Yeah.

01:02:39.300 --> 01:02:43.300
And I think that the whole cancel culture doesn't even really work.

01:02:43.300 --> 01:02:48.300
It's effectively like, especially if someone is like conventionally attractive.

01:02:48.300 --> 01:02:55.300
I've noticed so like, I think a really famous example is like Sienna May, who I, you know, I have no idea who this person was before I joined TikTok.

01:02:55.300 --> 01:03:04.300
But it's basically like this short form story is, it's a young, attractive woman who sexually assaulted another very popular influencer.

01:03:04.300 --> 01:03:08.300
Yeah, no, no, I follow the story as well. I'm just interested. I was invested in it.

01:03:08.300 --> 01:03:14.300
Yeah, and like, this dude, he's no slouch either, right? He's like probably 10 mil plus followers across his socials.

01:03:14.300 --> 01:03:15.300
Yeah.

01:03:15.300 --> 01:03:20.300
And he came out with a video and at first everyone was like hating on her, being like, oh my God, like cancel her, blah, blah, blah.

01:03:20.300 --> 01:03:26.300
But then she just came back like nothing happened and still has like millions of views, millions of followers, tons of sponsorships.

01:03:27.300 --> 01:03:30.900
Yeah. And like, it's like nothing happened almost.

01:03:30.900 --> 01:03:39.840
But then when you compare it to someone who's like, you know, conventionally unattractive or ugly, they do something like, I don't know, child grooming or like another pretty like serious type thing.

01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:51.840
They're gone. Like they're just, they're done. But if you look at someone like James Charles, who's again, conventionally attractive dude, has been caught messaging minors multiple times, not like a single incident.

01:03:51.840 --> 01:03:56.840
Right. This is what happened like over and over again. And, you know, he's fine. His career is better than ever.

01:03:56.840 --> 01:04:01.840
So that's yeah, the audience he got from that probably helped.

01:04:01.840 --> 01:04:07.840
Yeah. And then also the controversy, like if you actually study it, it does help people.

01:04:07.840 --> 01:04:17.840
So like Logan Paul, his first big controversy of filming the dead body in Japan, that was his biggest spike in like his whole career in terms of like eyeballs on him.

01:04:17.840 --> 01:04:22.840
And, you know, he went away for a couple of months, made his apology video, whatever, did like a redemption arc.

01:04:22.840 --> 01:04:28.840
But then he still continued to like kind of scam people. He like made a crypto thing.

01:04:28.840 --> 01:04:33.840
He likes did an NFT. But it's like you said, people almost don't care.

01:04:33.840 --> 01:04:35.840
They're like, OK, yeah, he did that thing.

01:04:35.840 --> 01:04:38.840
Yeah, it's like, hey, it's your fault. Right. For trusting this dude. Right.

01:04:38.840 --> 01:04:45.840
Like he was that trustworthy in the first place. Or I don't know, it's I think it's like almost to be canceled.

01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:52.840
You have to almost do more harm than good and good and not in the traditional sense, but in the like value proposition sense.

01:04:52.840 --> 01:05:03.840
Like if they're still providing a lot of entertainment or knowledge or comedy or what have you, as long as that outweighs the bad that they've done, like the people I've noticed online are usually fine.

01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:13.840
So when I first started on TikTok for the first few months, I noticed there was this one creator called I can't remember his exact name, but it was Gemini something.

01:05:13.840 --> 01:05:20.840
Gemini and he was found messaging like miners as well.

01:05:20.840 --> 01:05:28.840
I don't know if he knew they were miners or not, but regardless, he was messaging miners, some exchanges of messages and stuff and was even agreeing to meet up with them in a hotel.

01:05:28.840 --> 01:05:35.840
This is all found out. And this dude was just canceled off the face of the right.

01:05:35.840 --> 01:05:37.840
This was 2020.

01:05:37.840 --> 01:05:39.840
And yeah, just gone.

01:05:39.840 --> 01:05:42.840
Like every social just disappeared.

01:05:42.840 --> 01:05:47.840
And he was quite popular this in back in 2019, 2020.

01:05:47.840 --> 01:05:49.840
This dude was almost 3 million.

01:05:49.840 --> 01:05:50.840
Right.

01:05:50.840 --> 01:05:54.840
So that would be almost like, I don't know, 10 million equivalent now.

01:05:54.840 --> 01:06:00.840
So that was pretty impressive stuff back then, like in the musically era to bring it back.

01:06:00.840 --> 01:06:05.840
And yeah, it's like a deadly thing.

01:06:05.840 --> 01:06:13.840
Like you can't mess with social media like one slip up and you could be canceled even, you know, on the chance that you could make a comeback.

01:06:13.840 --> 01:06:15.840
There is a chance that you could not and you're just done.

01:06:15.840 --> 01:06:26.840
So all those months or years of work down the drain with one video, one word, one sentence, one thought, one reaction from someone else that could wipe you off the board.

01:06:26.840 --> 01:06:27.840
Yeah.

01:06:27.840 --> 01:06:31.840
And I also think a huge part of it is who your audience originally caters to.

01:06:31.840 --> 01:06:34.840
So like one of the top creators in the world, probably right now.

01:06:34.840 --> 01:06:37.840
I show speed like he said, right.

01:06:37.840 --> 01:06:46.840
He thrives on controversy and thrives on kind of not being politically correct because his main audience is probably like teenagers, young kids, right?

01:06:46.840 --> 01:06:48.840
13 to 18.

01:06:48.840 --> 01:06:49.840
Yeah, exactly.

01:06:49.840 --> 01:06:54.840
And so, you know, they're not going to care that he said something homophobic or racist because like they're into that stuff.

01:06:54.840 --> 01:06:58.840
That's kind of the culture as a teenage kid.

01:06:58.840 --> 01:07:00.840
That's uncancellable right now.

01:07:00.840 --> 01:07:01.840
Yes, exactly.

01:07:01.840 --> 01:07:06.840
Um, whereas I think it, but then on like the liver king thing, I don't think he's going away, honestly.

01:07:06.840 --> 01:07:10.840
Like I think, yeah, like people find that entertaining.

01:07:10.840 --> 01:07:15.840
Like the whole marketing wrapped around that persona is interesting, right?

01:07:15.840 --> 01:07:19.840
It's at the end of the day, it's, it's providing some value to some people enough of it.

01:07:19.840 --> 01:07:35.840
Um, because even though his audience was really large, probably a very small proportion bought his supplements, like big enough that he was making millions from it, but not big enough to like have that people be so angry, like out of his millions, probably, you know, one to 3% bought his supplements.

01:07:35.840 --> 01:07:40.840
And even if they're extremely angry, it's like, well, the other 95% don't really care.

01:07:40.840 --> 01:07:48.840
Um, and so it's, it's very interesting because the, the whole one slip up thing, I think that does apply to some people.

01:07:48.840 --> 01:07:52.840
Um, but not nearly enough to others.

01:07:52.840 --> 01:07:59.840
And I, the other thing about social media is I feel like the goalposts kind of change and humor changes, culture changes, society changes.

01:07:59.840 --> 01:08:08.840
So like comedians, a lot of comedians who were saying edgy jokes back in like the 2010s or 2000s, that was just normal back then.

01:08:08.840 --> 01:08:12.840
Like people didn't care, but then nowadays it's like, Hey, you gotta be super PC.

01:08:12.840 --> 01:08:17.840
Like people are going to come after you with like, they're going to dig up this old video of you or this old tweet or old, whatever.

01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:23.840
And be like, Hey, you know, this person said this thing, cancel them, like kick them off all the Emmy shows, kick them off TV, whatever.

01:08:23.840 --> 01:08:32.840
Um, but I think it's, I feel like people are almost getting fatigued by that sort of mindset because at first is for really heinous things.

01:08:32.840 --> 01:08:42.840
Like this person's a literal Nazi, or even though that's becoming popular again, somehow, but like, or like this person is a literal, I don't know, sex offender or something.

01:08:42.840 --> 01:08:46.840
This person literally did this heinous actual crime.

01:08:46.840 --> 01:08:51.840
And now it's like, this person said something wrong one time and people are like, get on them, pile on them for that.

01:08:51.840 --> 01:08:56.840
The pendulum keeps swinging from like extreme to not so extreme.

01:08:56.840 --> 01:09:11.840
And like, you know, because of that, um, you know, culture of being so maybe, you know, woke and focusing on those kind of seemingly minor infractions that maybe 10 years ago, people wouldn't have taken notice of.

01:09:11.840 --> 01:09:23.840
Obviously, I think that kind of stuff gave birth to this kind of incel culture, um, of mainly young men who are also seemingly angry at this other side, this other tribe.

01:09:23.840 --> 01:09:48.840
And obviously they then look to these, uh, almost like Messiah type figures like Andrew Tate or whatever, who obviously, you know, I don't, I don't know Andrew Tate in person or how he's like in person, but I assume it's unlikely to be an exact reflection of a social media personality, which is obviously exaggerated and caricatured in a way to appeal to these people.

01:09:48.840 --> 01:10:04.840
Right. Um, so it's interesting because, you know, obviously you would use the kind of the vibe of the times to make something and use that platform to then siphon that audience to funnel that audience to a course or something like that.

01:10:04.840 --> 01:10:18.840
So there is a ulterior motive behind that. And, um, on the, on the, and then there's people then arguing against, um, you know, what he stands for and what he says, and then people standing against those people attacking him.

01:10:18.840 --> 01:10:32.840
So it keeps swinging so many ways. And I think, you know, if you're too restrictive in what you allow people to say and do, then people would naturally try to find loopholes and cracks in that and go the other way.

01:10:32.840 --> 01:10:40.840
And then if you're too liberal, people will find a way to bring it back. So I don't know, like we've never found a happy medium.

01:10:40.840 --> 01:10:49.840
It seems on social media where you can just have a good time, say something, which, you know, it's a little bit edgy, but you know, people will be like, yeah, go find good one.

01:10:49.840 --> 01:10:55.840
Uh, but now it's like, whoa. Whoa. Yeah. You're done. Cancel it.

01:10:55.840 --> 01:11:05.840
And it's, it's like kind of funny because it's a tick tock, especially there's like trends of hate. So it's like for one week, it might be like a certain creator. Everyone's just hating on them.

01:11:05.840 --> 01:11:15.840
And then, you know, the next week it's kind of old news. No one cares anymore. Um, but it's like people, like you said, are very angry on just both sides everywhere.

01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:31.840
Both sides everywhere. People just seem to be very angry these days. Um, and I think even on another higher level, so like SBF, uh, Sam Bankman-Fried with his FTX fraud, he even came out in like a interview that was recorded.

01:11:31.840 --> 01:11:41.840
And then later released, he's like, oh yeah, you know, I don't really believe in a lot of these woke or progressive things I'm saying. I just know I have to say them in order to get the funding in order to get the reputation.

01:11:41.840 --> 01:11:52.840
Like he knows how to play the game. He's like, yeah, us Westerners, we have to act woke to get this like social credibility. Um, and then it came out that it's like, oh, he donated $30 million to Democrats.

01:11:52.840 --> 01:12:02.840
Well, it turns out he also donated the same amount to Republicans in dark pools cause he knew like, oh, this wouldn't be popular if it came out that people knew I was also donating to Republicans cause they're not, you know, they're not cool.

01:12:02.840 --> 01:12:11.840
It doesn't fit my image or my brand of being this like progressive liberal elite type of person. Um, and like you said, a lot of people have figured it out.

01:12:11.840 --> 01:12:20.840
They figured it out like, okay, I can appeal to this group of angry, embittered men or women, or it doesn't really matter what group you're appealing to.

01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:27.840
Um, but if you say kind of the right triggering things, you also get that engagement from both sides, from people defending you or attacking you.

01:12:27.840 --> 01:12:37.840
Um, and your goal really is to enrich yourself, funnel them to the course, like you said, or funnel them to your supplement that you're selling or what have you.

01:12:37.840 --> 01:12:48.840
And so I think it's hard to find sort of unfiltered truth nowadays online, because a lot of people, they have some sort of agenda,

01:12:48.840 --> 01:12:55.840
whether they're being paid to say something or they're trying to extract monetary value from you in some way.

01:12:55.840 --> 01:13:04.840
Um, it's hard to find media outlets or just even individuals who are trying to give their opinion in an unbiased way or as unbiased as possible.

01:13:04.840 --> 01:13:09.840
Right. Just saying what they truly think rather than being influenced by some outside party.

01:13:09.840 --> 01:13:11.840
Um, yeah, I don't know.

01:13:11.840 --> 01:13:12.840
Yeah.

01:13:12.840 --> 01:13:24.840
I mean, I, I generally don't trust most of what I watch on social media and actually I consume less and less social media now.

01:13:24.840 --> 01:13:31.840
Anyway, I mean, the only social media I consume is what people tagged me in to use as content ideas for videos.

01:13:31.840 --> 01:13:39.840
So someone will tag me in some video that is spouting some nonsense about health or science or something.

01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:44.840
And I'll watch that just to make a video about it or stitch it and be like, yeah, that's bullshit.

01:13:44.840 --> 01:13:47.840
Uh, otherwise I don't really watch videos.

01:13:47.840 --> 01:13:56.840
I'm not on TikTok watching videos, um, which is, I guess is good because I've heard people just go on these like rabbit holes of videos where they just keep watching.

01:13:56.840 --> 01:13:57.840
I've never been like that.

01:13:57.840 --> 01:14:04.840
Like I follow a few creators, but those are more creators that I just, you know, occasionally come across their content and I like it and I follow them.

01:14:04.840 --> 01:14:07.840
Not necessarily that I keep watching their content.

01:14:07.840 --> 01:14:09.840
Occasionally I will watch something.

01:14:09.840 --> 01:14:12.840
I'll check on that or check up on them and see, Oh, this video is popular.

01:14:12.840 --> 01:14:13.840
Let me check it out as well.

01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:14.840
Cause it might be interesting.

01:14:14.840 --> 01:14:27.840
And I watched that, but I won't religiously follow the, you know, 200 people that I follow or, you know, aside from that, I don't even watch the for you page that often just literally, you know, I want to make some content.

01:14:27.840 --> 01:14:36.840
I'll watch videos a bit just to see what the general trend is on TikTok, what the vibe is, what are people doing to keep up to date with the pulse of TikTok.

01:14:37.840 --> 01:14:42.840
But I don't spend hours a day on that purely because, you know, I don't have that time to do that.

01:14:42.840 --> 01:14:47.840
But also I'm worried that, you know, I've got quite like an addictive personality.

01:14:47.840 --> 01:14:52.840
Um, so if I did kind of go on TikTok, I could easily go on there probably for like two hours or more.

01:14:53.840 --> 01:14:54.840
Yeah.

01:14:54.840 --> 01:14:57.840
And I think what you said about being busy is right on the dot.

01:14:57.840 --> 01:15:07.840
Like if you're too busy to do a lot of these kind of not as product productive things for your health, it's almost a good thing.

01:15:07.840 --> 01:15:15.840
Cause if you're too busy, like creating content or working or going to the gym or doing something that will benefit you, you're not just scrolling TikTok.

01:15:15.840 --> 01:15:16.840
You're not just consuming media.

01:15:16.840 --> 01:15:24.840
Um, and I think it's like almost a balance because there are things you can do like reading, you can read some self-help books that might motivate you.

01:15:24.840 --> 01:15:26.840
You could read about something to learn a new skill.

01:15:26.840 --> 01:15:29.840
Um, but most people are really just consuming for entertainment.

01:15:29.840 --> 01:15:32.840
Like it's almost like junk food, but for your mind.

01:15:32.840 --> 01:15:33.840
Yeah.

01:15:33.840 --> 01:15:34.840
Yeah.

01:15:34.840 --> 01:15:35.840
That's the thing.

01:15:35.840 --> 01:15:47.840
Like TikTok, there is education out there, but there's so much mindless content that yeah, it is just, you get influenced by being in that environment.

01:15:47.840 --> 01:15:51.840
You need that pollution of just nonsense content all the time.

01:15:51.840 --> 01:16:00.840
Like I, you know, people can do whatever they want online, but every time I see like a video, that's like some trend or something like that.

01:16:00.840 --> 01:16:03.840
I'm just like, I just can't, I have to skip it.

01:16:03.840 --> 01:16:06.840
I just can't even, there's certain sounds that are triggering to me.

01:16:06.840 --> 01:16:11.840
Like, you know, viral sounds that you keep hearing again and again, like, you know, they get played.

01:16:11.840 --> 01:16:13.840
Your, your head is just surrounded by them.

01:16:13.840 --> 01:16:15.840
Even when you're not on TikTok, you just hear them in your head.

01:16:15.840 --> 01:16:17.840
So I can't have that.

01:16:17.840 --> 01:16:20.840
And it makes me sick sometimes hearing that sound and maybe even slightly angry.

01:16:20.840 --> 01:16:27.840
Like if I see a trend or a sound, so I just, uh, you know, I, I rage quit TikTok cause I can't deal with that anymore.

01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:29.840
And, um, yeah, you're right.

01:16:29.840 --> 01:16:36.840
I mean, you can't, you can't get education in the traditional sense really from TikTok cause it's so short.

01:16:36.840 --> 01:16:44.840
Uh, you, you know, I always find even with my videos, uh, you know, I just make kind of educational content, nothing really particularly funny or entertaining.

01:16:44.840 --> 01:16:45.840
In that sense.

01:16:45.840 --> 01:16:47.840
That's all out humor.

01:16:47.840 --> 01:16:54.840
I want people to see my videos as almost like, um, a springboard to further their research.

01:16:54.840 --> 01:16:58.840
You know, like, Hey, I've spoken about this topic for a minute, a minute and a half.

01:16:58.840 --> 01:17:08.840
It's not obviously everything you need to know about the topic, but it should wet your appetite to go up on a rabbit hole or a little reading session about that.

01:17:08.840 --> 01:17:09.840
If you're interested in about that.

01:17:09.840 --> 01:17:11.840
Like if I talk about testicular torsion.

01:17:11.840 --> 01:17:12.840
Yeah.

01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:21.840
I've told you like the headlines of testicular torsion in 45 seconds, but if you really want, you can go up and read about it in like a textbook or online or whatever.

01:17:21.840 --> 01:17:34.840
Um, so yeah, I don't think necessarily Tiktok is like a paragon of wisdom and advice and knowledge, but it is like, you know, starting points for you to explore interesting topics.

01:17:34.840 --> 01:17:40.840
Like someone recommends a certain, you know, uh, supplement for testosterone boosting.

01:17:40.840 --> 01:17:46.840
You're not going to just say, okay, that guy with his shirt off, who's got six pack has said, I need that.

01:17:46.840 --> 01:17:47.840
So I'm going to buy it.

01:17:47.840 --> 01:17:49.840
You're going to be like, okay, that's interesting.

01:17:49.840 --> 01:17:53.840
Let me go and read up about Tonkat Ali or ashwagandha.

01:17:53.840 --> 01:17:57.840
Let me go and do some of my own literature searches and read about it.

01:17:57.840 --> 01:18:03.840
I think that's what it should be used for rather than like a, he says that she says that that's true.

01:18:03.840 --> 01:18:04.840
Yeah.

01:18:04.840 --> 01:18:07.840
I think in an ideal world, people would have that response.

01:18:07.840 --> 01:18:08.840
Like that's what we would do, right?

01:18:08.840 --> 01:18:10.840
Like we would see something like, okay, that's interesting.

01:18:10.840 --> 01:18:14.840
Let me look at it on my own to make sure it's legit and kind of get the surrounding facts.

01:18:14.840 --> 01:18:22.840
But I think most people probably fall into the former category where they're like, Hey, my favorite political person said this.

01:18:22.840 --> 01:18:23.840
That's, that's my view.

01:18:23.840 --> 01:18:26.840
Now I'm going to parrot it in all the comments and all the videos that I see.

01:18:27.840 --> 01:18:28.840
Uh, Oh, this person said that person's wrong.

01:18:28.840 --> 01:18:31.840
I'm not going to actually look into this, but yeah, that person is wrong.

01:18:31.840 --> 01:18:32.840
Let me go comment on the video.

01:18:32.840 --> 01:18:33.840
Hey, you're wrong.

01:18:33.840 --> 01:18:34.840
This person said you're wrong.

01:18:34.840 --> 01:18:37.840
And it comes up almost to a point of like, he said, she said.

01:18:37.840 --> 01:18:43.840
Uh, where it's like, I literally see the same comments posted across many, many videos.

01:18:43.840 --> 01:18:47.840
And it's not because it's like an original thought, but because it's a popular thoughts.

01:18:47.840 --> 01:18:51.840
That's being said by their favorite person.

01:18:51.840 --> 01:18:59.840
Um, and even I think the TikTok algorithm itself works against this idea because it really wants to keep you on the platform.

01:18:59.840 --> 01:19:05.840
So one of the worst things is that people will like someone exits the app from your video.

01:19:05.840 --> 01:19:11.840
That will absolutely take the video because that's telling the algorithm like, Hey, you should leave TikTok.

01:19:11.840 --> 01:19:12.840
Like people are leaving TikTok.

01:19:12.840 --> 01:19:17.840
They must be really upset or, you know, they don't care about the reason, but all they see is like this person exited the app.

01:19:17.840 --> 01:19:27.840
Um, it's more effective than like hitting the not interested button by leagues and bounds because people are leaving your, not just your page, but the entire app entirely.

01:19:27.840 --> 01:19:28.840
Right.

01:19:28.840 --> 01:19:36.840
Um, and they're trying to build, uh, so in the Chinese version, like called Douyin, people are able to sell products directly from their lives or from their page.

01:19:36.840 --> 01:19:38.840
Like you just click a link and you can buy it.

01:19:38.840 --> 01:19:43.840
I think eventually American TikTok is going to trend that way where they're going to allow creators.

01:19:43.840 --> 01:19:45.840
Cause like right now you can't add URLs, you can't add links.

01:19:45.840 --> 01:19:46.840
You can't do any of that.

01:19:46.840 --> 01:19:47.840
Yeah.

01:19:47.840 --> 01:19:51.840
It's hard to get people to like actually click on your product or your affiliate link or whatever you're doing.

01:19:51.840 --> 01:19:55.840
Cause they have to go to your profile and click on your link, uh, aggregator, click on this thing.

01:19:55.840 --> 01:19:57.840
That's like so many clicks.

01:19:57.840 --> 01:19:58.840
Most people won't do that.

01:19:58.840 --> 01:20:05.840
I think for your people who view, uh, for people who don't know how the stats work for every like a hundred people who,

01:20:05.840 --> 01:20:12.840
let's do a thousand, a thousand people who view the video, maybe like five to 10 of them will actually go to your profile.

01:20:12.840 --> 01:20:15.840
And then, you know, even smaller percentage of that will click on the links.

01:20:15.840 --> 01:20:22.840
And so it's a lot of it is based on numbers, but say you have a video and you're able to click directly.

01:20:22.840 --> 01:20:28.840
So like, uh, I think this will be really big for like fashion and cosmetics and actual stats behind TikTok.

01:20:28.840 --> 01:20:32.840
I think 70% of the population is female.

01:20:32.840 --> 01:20:39.840
Um, surprisingly to me, I didn't, I don't know why that is, but it's just, there's more girls on TikTok than guys.

01:20:39.840 --> 01:20:50.840
And if you look at the consumption, like where the media's sponsorship spend is going, female creators actually command a much larger proportion of it for many different reasons.

01:20:50.840 --> 01:20:58.840
But one of it is like a lot of social media managers, the people who are deciding which people to partner with, like they're generally young and female as well.

01:20:58.840 --> 01:21:02.840
Um, as well as there being much more products to market to the female audience.

01:21:02.840 --> 01:21:09.840
So like you have lashes, you have makeup, you have skincare, you have, you know, clothing, you have accessories.

01:21:09.840 --> 01:21:09.840
Yeah.

01:21:09.840 --> 01:21:15.840
All this stuff where it's like, guys, I think, um, there is still a market for that type of stuff, but it's not nearly as big.

01:21:15.840 --> 01:21:26.840
And so like, yeah, I mean, I think as far as like thinking about it from a TikTok company level perspective, like, I'm not really worried about the whole political influence thing.

01:21:26.840 --> 01:21:34.840
The whole like China data privacy thing, I think that's more of like, uh, economic warfare between the US and China where they're like, you know, propaganda.

01:21:34.840 --> 01:21:35.840
Yeah.

01:21:35.840 --> 01:21:43.840
Like each side, they're doing sketchy stuff with their data, but they're doing it for like, most likely money making purposes, not like political influence purposes.

01:21:43.840 --> 01:21:44.840
Uh, not yet.

01:21:44.840 --> 01:21:46.840
Anyway, maybe in the future, who knows?

01:21:46.840 --> 01:21:54.840
Um, but yeah, I could see TikTok, like they're going to start integrating more and more of these business level services.

01:21:54.840 --> 01:21:58.840
So right now you have companies that are built entirely off of TikTok.

01:21:58.840 --> 01:22:01.840
So like the link aggregators, like Linktree, et cetera.

01:22:01.840 --> 01:22:02.840
Oh yeah.

01:22:02.840 --> 01:22:04.840
Um, that are, right.

01:22:04.840 --> 01:22:07.840
Uh, because that niche is not yet fulfilled within the app itself.

01:22:07.840 --> 01:22:14.840
But I can see that eventually going away and TikTok just building that into the app itself.

01:22:14.840 --> 01:22:21.840
Cause they're like, well, why would we give up this income to other platforms when we can just take it ourselves?

01:22:21.840 --> 01:22:24.840
So like, you've seen the same thing happen with Discord recently.

01:22:24.840 --> 01:22:25.840
So Patreon was a huge thing.

01:22:25.840 --> 01:22:27.840
People would have like a Patreon account.

01:22:27.840 --> 01:22:30.840
They'd be like, Hey, you sign up, we'll give you like special access to Discord.

01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:33.840
And Discord's like, okay, let's just roll this feature out ourselves.

01:22:33.840 --> 01:22:34.840
You have subscriptions now.

01:22:34.840 --> 01:22:40.840
Um, and I think for TikTok, they've tried to compete with other platforms in that sense as well.

01:22:40.840 --> 01:22:43.840
Like they have live subscriptions now trying to compete with Twitch.

01:22:43.840 --> 01:22:48.840
Um, and yeah, I think, I think it's going to continue to go that way.

01:22:48.840 --> 01:22:52.840
Like they're trying to compete with YouTube by upping the ad revenue.

01:22:52.840 --> 01:22:53.840
Right.

01:22:53.840 --> 01:22:54.840
Right.

01:22:54.840 --> 01:23:00.840
Um, and I think eventually I can, I wouldn't be surprised if TikTok has like a payment aggregator

01:23:00.840 --> 01:23:02.840
cause it's like way cheaper to process your own payments.

01:23:02.840 --> 01:23:09.840
And then also having like an almost Amazon-esque type store, or at least like some sort of link

01:23:09.840 --> 01:23:10.840
affiliate type thing.

01:23:10.840 --> 01:23:15.840
Um, cause right now I think a lot of creators that I've talked to, they're like, Oh yeah, well,

01:23:15.840 --> 01:23:17.840
I'm moving to YouTube cause they pay more money.

01:23:17.840 --> 01:23:20.840
Cause a lot of people are creating content cause they do want money.

01:23:20.840 --> 01:23:25.840
Um, especially younger creators who don't have a career yet or don't have a job.

01:23:25.840 --> 01:23:27.840
They're like, well, you know, I'm making all this content.

01:23:27.840 --> 01:23:30.840
I'm spending my entire day doing this, but I'm not getting money from it.

01:23:30.840 --> 01:23:32.840
Like how can I continually sustain this?

01:23:32.840 --> 01:23:36.840
So they're like, Hey, let me just move to YouTube cause YouTube pays more.

01:23:36.840 --> 01:23:42.840
Um, and I think, but it's hard to say cause I also saw the opposing theory where it's just

01:23:42.840 --> 01:23:47.840
like TikTok's algorithm is so good and there's so many new content creators constantly coming

01:23:47.840 --> 01:23:51.840
in that they don't really care as much about the monetization aspect.

01:23:51.840 --> 01:23:55.840
Cause they're like, well, you know, well, we're just going to keep on getting more people

01:23:55.840 --> 01:23:57.840
to create stuff for free.

01:23:57.840 --> 01:24:00.840
And we don't necessarily need to retain.

01:24:00.840 --> 01:24:04.840
Like, even if you have 10 million plus followers that they're like, yeah, well, we don't care.

01:24:04.840 --> 01:24:07.840
Cause it's not like your content gets pushed to all of those people.

01:24:07.840 --> 01:24:09.840
It's not like a fan out algorithm.

01:24:09.840 --> 01:24:11.840
It's more like a standpoint.

01:24:11.840 --> 01:24:16.840
And also that 10 million they're following 10,000 people each.

01:24:16.840 --> 01:24:18.840
Like you're one of the people they're following.

01:24:18.840 --> 01:24:22.840
So it's not your 10 million to keep and you're giving to TikTok.

01:24:22.840 --> 01:24:24.840
That's TikTok subscribers.

01:24:24.840 --> 01:24:25.840
So it belongs to TikTok.

01:24:25.840 --> 01:24:28.840
Anyway, the house wins, you know, the dealer wins.

01:24:28.840 --> 01:24:31.840
So you are just a player in this poker game.

01:24:31.840 --> 01:24:39.840
And sometimes you might pull out a good hand and you get a super viral video, but most of the time you get duds and the house wins.

01:24:39.840 --> 01:24:46.840
So in that sense, yeah, like you said, TikTok doesn't care because your 10 million followers, they're mine anyway.

01:24:46.840 --> 01:24:51.840
You know, I'll just show them some new creators content and I'll make him viral.

01:24:51.840 --> 01:24:52.840
I'll make her viral.

01:24:52.840 --> 01:24:55.840
You know, I'll make this family of singing dogs viral.

01:24:55.840 --> 01:24:58.840
You know, so like, yeah, you're right.

01:24:58.840 --> 01:24:59.840
TikTok doesn't care.

01:24:59.840 --> 01:25:07.840
And the interesting thing is, I mean, I think a lot of people thought that TikTok would go the same way that Vine did and just die a horrible, you know, quick death.

01:25:07.840 --> 01:25:16.840
But they have constantly evolved, you know, one minute videos, three minute, 10 minute filters that keep changing like every day.

01:25:16.840 --> 01:25:21.840
You know, duets and stitches and live streams, stories, TikTok pulse.

01:25:21.840 --> 01:25:22.840
They're constantly evolving.

01:25:22.840 --> 01:25:28.840
So they're adding in more features that keeps all of these other competitor apps at bay.

01:25:28.840 --> 01:25:31.840
And people like staying on one platform.

01:25:31.840 --> 01:25:38.840
So if you give everything that everyone wants on one platform, they'll just stay on TikTok because they've got the Instagram story type features.

01:25:38.840 --> 01:25:40.840
They've got the live stuff like Twitch.

01:25:40.840 --> 01:25:48.840
They've got the longer videos like YouTube, just not, you know, horizontal, but they've got everything you need.

01:25:48.840 --> 01:25:52.840
And I know people who are just on TikTok and no other social media platform.

01:25:52.840 --> 01:25:58.840
And if you look, actually, loads of YouTube shorts and Instagram reels are all just repurposed TikTok.

01:25:58.840 --> 01:26:00.840
So, you know.

01:26:01.840 --> 01:26:04.840
Yeah, TikTok is definitely where the culture is happening right now.

01:26:04.840 --> 01:26:12.840
So like before, in the old days of the Internet, a lot of memes would originate from 4chan and then they eventually would go stale.

01:26:12.840 --> 01:26:14.840
And then they'd move on to like Reddit or Twitter.

01:26:14.840 --> 01:26:17.840
And then, you know, lastly to like Facebook and like the older platforms.

01:26:17.840 --> 01:26:19.840
But nowadays it's like TikTok is the culture.

01:26:19.840 --> 01:26:22.840
You'll originate and die on TikTok.

01:26:22.840 --> 01:26:26.840
And then TikTok is even like posting content from other platforms.

01:26:26.840 --> 01:26:31.840
Like you'll literally see videos where people are just referencing a series of tweets or like reading them out loud.

01:26:31.840 --> 01:26:34.840
Or it's just like it somehow will go viral on TikTok.

01:26:34.840 --> 01:26:38.840
And it's really interesting to see what does well on each platform.

01:26:38.840 --> 01:26:40.840
Because like I'm also on Reddit a lot.

01:26:40.840 --> 01:26:43.840
It's probably my main social media platform.

01:26:43.840 --> 01:26:48.840
And it'll, what will go viral on Reddit is so drastically different from TikTok.

01:26:48.840 --> 01:26:53.840
Like they'll post a video that might get a couple thousand of votes, which is a lot for Reddit.

01:26:53.840 --> 01:26:57.840
And I'll look at that video, click on the actual video on the TikTok platform.

01:26:57.840 --> 01:27:04.840
It'll have maybe, you know, tens of thousands of views, which is like, okay, but it's not, it's nothing by like TikTok standards.

01:27:04.840 --> 01:27:10.840
And then especially if you like cross post to like Instagram or YouTube shorts, the algorithm is just completely different.

01:27:10.840 --> 01:27:12.840
The audience is completely different.

01:27:12.840 --> 01:27:13.840
Yeah.

01:27:13.840 --> 01:27:16.840
Instagram is older people who already have a profession or career.

01:27:16.840 --> 01:27:20.840
Um, I guesstimate probably twenties to thirties.

01:27:20.840 --> 01:27:23.840
Whereas TikTok, I still think it's more like teens.

01:27:23.840 --> 01:27:27.840
Um, though I did read that it's like half, half now in terms of like older and younger people.

01:27:27.840 --> 01:27:31.840
And then YouTube shorts, I have no idea what they're doing over at YouTube shorts.

01:27:31.840 --> 01:27:36.840
I feel like it's almost like an afterthought because it's still like, it's still Google.

01:27:36.840 --> 01:27:37.840
It's still SEO.

01:27:37.840 --> 01:27:38.840
It's still long form content.

01:27:38.840 --> 01:27:40.840
Um, the short stuff.

01:27:40.840 --> 01:27:44.840
I talked to like some content marketing agencies.

01:27:44.840 --> 01:27:45.840
They're like, Oh yeah.

01:27:45.840 --> 01:27:48.840
People, advertisers are not paying people to advertise on shorts.

01:27:48.840 --> 01:27:51.840
Like they're paying people to advertise on Instagram stories and TikTok.

01:27:51.840 --> 01:27:53.840
But like YouTube is still long form.

01:27:53.840 --> 01:27:55.840
Like that's what advertisers care about on YouTube.

01:27:55.840 --> 01:28:03.840
Um, I feel shorts is actually a YouTube shorts is almost a different social media platform

01:28:03.840 --> 01:28:04.840
than YouTube.

01:28:04.840 --> 01:28:09.840
Um, like the audiences, you look at a lot of creators who make shorts and do well from shorts.

01:28:09.840 --> 01:28:10.840
And they post long form.

01:28:10.840 --> 01:28:12.840
The long form doesn't get the views.

01:28:12.840 --> 01:28:15.840
It tanks because it's a completely different audience.

01:28:15.840 --> 01:28:17.840
I feel that YouTube shorts is a very young audience.

01:28:17.840 --> 01:28:22.840
Um, maybe even younger than Ted talk, like kind of like almost like a Snapchat style audience

01:28:22.840 --> 01:28:25.840
where it's kind of mid to early teens, uh, maybe.

01:28:25.840 --> 01:28:26.840
Uh, maybe.

01:28:26.840 --> 01:28:34.840
And, um, yeah, so I think there's still some work to be done on YouTube side to bridge your

01:28:34.840 --> 01:28:39.840
followers from your shorts to bring them onto your long, because it doesn't make sense that

01:28:39.840 --> 01:28:46.840
someone who's got maybe 2 million, uh, subscribed or followers on, um, uh, YouTube who have blown

01:28:46.840 --> 01:28:51.840
up from shorts can post a 10 minute long form video and just get 5,000 views or 10,000 views.

01:28:51.840 --> 01:28:53.840
It doesn't make sense.

01:28:53.840 --> 01:28:58.840
Like even if it's a terrible video, they should be getting like a hundred thousand views or

01:28:58.840 --> 01:28:59.840
50,000 views.

01:28:59.840 --> 01:29:06.840
Like to get single digit views or 10,000, scrape 10,000 does not make sense on any platform.

01:29:06.840 --> 01:29:07.840
Really?

01:29:07.840 --> 01:29:12.840
Like you should be at least getting 10% of your follower count should be watching a video,

01:29:12.840 --> 01:29:19.840
you know, but that's more a comment on the platforms not doing their bits than the content

01:29:19.840 --> 01:29:20.840
creators.

01:29:20.840 --> 01:29:21.840
Yeah.

01:29:21.840 --> 01:29:22.840
I think you're completely right.

01:29:22.840 --> 01:29:27.840
Cause I've noticed that same exact thing for really large, short creators on YouTube.

01:29:27.840 --> 01:29:32.840
Like there will try to post long form content probably because you know, it makes more money.

01:29:32.840 --> 01:29:36.840
It can add mid roles and other ads and other monetization aspects.

01:29:36.840 --> 01:29:39.840
Um, but then they get really low views.

01:29:39.840 --> 01:29:41.840
And I always wonder like, how is that the case?

01:29:41.840 --> 01:29:45.840
Because YouTube, it does push your videos, all your followers, like your subscription fee.

01:29:45.840 --> 01:29:49.840
You're going to, if you're one of those 2 million, you're going to see that on your feet.

01:29:49.840 --> 01:29:52.840
Like you're going to see that creator and they're whatever.

01:29:52.840 --> 01:29:58.840
Um, and it is interesting cause like, I think you're also spot on with the audience being

01:29:58.840 --> 01:30:03.840
much younger cause like the comments that I get on YouTube shorts, it's like, you know,

01:30:03.840 --> 01:30:09.840
it's, it's even, it's way below like the level, um, of intelligence of like TikTok comments.

01:30:09.840 --> 01:30:10.840
So it's like worse.

01:30:10.840 --> 01:30:11.840
Yeah.

01:30:11.840 --> 01:30:12.840
It's much, much worse.

01:30:12.840 --> 01:30:16.840
And I'm thinking like, Hmm, I guess it makes sense that like I show speed is like one

01:30:16.840 --> 01:30:20.840
of the most popular live streamers on this platform because if this is the age level of

01:30:20.840 --> 01:30:22.840
people who are watching this stuff, like that makes sense.

01:30:22.840 --> 01:30:23.840
Yeah.

01:30:23.840 --> 01:30:24.840
Yeah.

01:30:24.840 --> 01:30:28.840
Cause I, I've always found like the, the craziest stuff does well on YouTube.

01:30:28.840 --> 01:30:33.840
Like really crazy clickbait stuff, which you think a younger audience would prefer.

01:30:33.840 --> 01:30:39.840
And they're kind of more, you know, quote unquote highbrow stuff won't do as well.

01:30:39.840 --> 01:30:41.840
Uh, but it may do well on TikTok.

01:30:41.840 --> 01:30:42.840
It will do well on Instagram.

01:30:42.840 --> 01:30:47.840
Maybe it doesn't on YouTube shorts because probably of that reason, it's a younger audience.

01:30:47.840 --> 01:30:48.840
Yeah.

01:30:48.840 --> 01:30:49.840
Yeah.

01:30:49.840 --> 01:30:52.840
And I think that a lot of YouTube is about that clickbaitiness.

01:30:52.840 --> 01:30:55.840
It's they're like, Hey, how do you, if people have it down almost to a science, how do you

01:30:55.840 --> 01:31:00.840
make the most clickbaity headline and caption at most clickbaity thumbnail?

01:31:00.840 --> 01:31:03.840
And people at this point are even conditioned to be like, okay, if I click on this, there's

01:31:03.840 --> 01:31:05.840
like a 50, 50 chance.

01:31:05.840 --> 01:31:08.840
It'll actually be about whatever this caption or thumbnail is about.

01:31:08.840 --> 01:31:14.840
Um, and as well as the editing techniques, I feel like YouTube videos are so involved these

01:31:14.840 --> 01:31:14.840
days.

01:31:14.840 --> 01:31:16.840
It's like a transition every three seconds.

01:31:16.840 --> 01:31:21.840
You have like a filter, you have this caption, you have like stuff coming at you.

01:31:21.840 --> 01:31:24.840
And I think the person who does it the best, obviously Mr. Beast.

01:31:24.840 --> 01:31:28.840
But if you just look at his videos, like there's like three things happening on the screen at

01:31:28.840 --> 01:31:30.840
every, any given moments.

01:31:30.840 --> 01:31:35.840
Um, and for me, that's too much, you know, like, uh, I don't know, maybe I'm too old for

01:31:35.840 --> 01:31:36.840
that.

01:31:36.840 --> 01:31:42.840
Um, but like, I, I've never actually watched, um, more than 10, 20 seconds of a Mr. Beast

01:31:42.840 --> 01:31:43.840
video.

01:31:43.840 --> 01:31:44.840
I know who he is obviously.

01:31:44.840 --> 01:31:48.840
And I've seen his thumbnails and things like that, but I've never actually watched a video

01:31:48.840 --> 01:31:50.840
because it doesn't interest me.

01:31:50.840 --> 01:31:52.840
Uh, what he makes doesn't interest me.

01:31:52.840 --> 01:32:00.840
Um, and, um, you know, I, I, I'm there for more kind of like longer form content, which should

01:32:00.840 --> 01:32:05.840
explain something or tell me something, but not just trying to grab my attention every

01:32:05.840 --> 01:32:08.840
second for the sake of audience retention time.

01:32:08.840 --> 01:32:10.840
You know, I'm not there for that.

01:32:10.840 --> 01:32:16.840
I'm not there as a statistic for your analytics, uh, which is what a lot of these younger creators

01:32:16.840 --> 01:32:18.840
like to do, like a big catchy title.

01:32:18.840 --> 01:32:23.840
And every second is planned out almost like they plan out every second for an hour.

01:32:23.840 --> 01:32:25.840
How can we optimize this second?

01:32:25.840 --> 01:32:27.840
It's just like, just be yourself.

01:32:27.840 --> 01:32:29.840
Like, I mean, that's the kind of content I watch.

01:32:29.840 --> 01:32:34.840
Like someone just sitting in front of their desk, like talking about something occasionally,

01:32:34.840 --> 01:32:39.840
like, you know, having some photo to explain something and, you know, I'm not editing out

01:32:39.840 --> 01:32:42.840
each pause between each breath.

01:32:42.840 --> 01:32:43.840
Yeah.

01:32:43.840 --> 01:32:44.840
I mean.

01:32:44.840 --> 01:32:45.840
Yeah.

01:32:45.840 --> 01:32:46.840
It's hard to say.

01:32:46.840 --> 01:32:49.840
Cause it's like, I think that type of style definitely does work.

01:32:49.840 --> 01:32:53.840
And you can see on TikTok with like the split screens, like the bottom is just some game

01:32:53.840 --> 01:32:57.840
or like, I don't know, a random clip from Minecraft or something.

01:32:57.840 --> 01:33:02.840
And then the top is like, yeah, it's getting to the point where I'm like, I feel like I'm

01:33:02.840 --> 01:33:05.840
being conditioned to have less of an attention span.

01:33:05.840 --> 01:33:07.840
Cause it's like, you're focusing on the game.

01:33:07.840 --> 01:33:09.840
And then there's something interesting happening up top.

01:33:09.840 --> 01:33:11.840
It's like, you can't even have just one video playing now.

01:33:11.840 --> 01:33:14.840
You have two, maybe three videos coming out at the same time.

01:33:14.840 --> 01:33:15.840
Yeah.

01:33:15.840 --> 01:33:16.840
That's just like a hack, isn't it?

01:33:16.840 --> 01:33:19.840
Cause people want to watch what happens to the car in the game.

01:33:19.840 --> 01:33:22.840
And then you just watch that car and then that play guy play.

01:33:22.840 --> 01:33:23.840
So yeah.

01:33:23.840 --> 01:33:26.840
I, I hate those videos that try to like trick you into thing.

01:33:26.840 --> 01:33:30.840
Or, you know, those videos that just have loads of text on screen.

01:33:30.840 --> 01:33:33.840
Cause you think you're going to keep rewatching it to read all the text.

01:33:33.840 --> 01:33:38.840
And it's just like, dude, just, if you're so desperate to go viral, just think of something

01:33:38.840 --> 01:33:43.840
good to talk about instead of doing these hacks to go viral because, you know, you can go viral,

01:33:43.840 --> 01:33:49.840
but then if you're not consistently loved or people don't enjoy your videos, you would just be a one hit wonder.

01:33:49.840 --> 01:33:50.840
You know, you see loads of those.

01:33:50.840 --> 01:33:54.840
Someone goes crazy viral, 20 million video, 20 million views on a video.

01:33:54.840 --> 01:34:02.840
And then the following videos just get like a hundred views, 600,000, because they can't replicate that success.

01:34:02.840 --> 01:34:04.840
People haven't watched them for them.

01:34:04.840 --> 01:34:08.840
They've watched that one viral video video where I know they've done something crazy.

01:34:08.840 --> 01:34:11.840
Like they've smashed a pumpkin on someone's head or something.

01:34:11.840 --> 01:34:12.840
I don't know.

01:34:12.840 --> 01:34:16.840
Um, but they can't be smashing people's heads with pumpkins every video.

01:34:16.840 --> 01:34:19.840
So it's, you know, you need that niche.

01:34:19.840 --> 01:34:22.840
Like, you know, you, you answer comments in your video.

01:34:22.840 --> 01:34:23.840
People like that.

01:34:23.840 --> 01:34:24.840
People like that knowledge.

01:34:24.840 --> 01:34:25.840
Okay.

01:34:25.840 --> 01:34:26.840
What's he going to talk about next?

01:34:26.840 --> 01:34:27.840
So keep watching.

01:34:27.840 --> 01:34:32.840
So you build that niche, but that's the curse of some creators where they have one viral video where they do something.

01:34:32.840 --> 01:34:35.840
They do something that's not inherently them.

01:34:35.840 --> 01:34:40.840
Um, so then when they switch back from the viral video to them, people like, no, no, no.

01:34:40.840 --> 01:34:41.840
I don't want you.

01:34:41.840 --> 01:34:42.840
I want what you did before.

01:34:42.840 --> 01:34:43.840
Yeah.

01:34:43.840 --> 01:34:46.840
And I think it's really easy to get caught in that trap as well.

01:34:46.840 --> 01:34:47.840
Cause people see what does well.

01:34:47.840 --> 01:34:50.840
And they're like, oh, only my controversial videos do well.

01:34:50.840 --> 01:34:52.840
Only this dance does well.

01:34:52.840 --> 01:34:56.840
And they have a really hard time branching out from that because they just don't have a choice.

01:34:56.840 --> 01:34:59.840
Cause they're like, okay, well, if I want to get views, like I have to do this one thing.

01:34:59.840 --> 01:35:01.840
Cause like people don't care about my other stuff.

01:35:01.840 --> 01:35:04.840
Um, and even for like Mr. Beast, right.

01:35:04.840 --> 01:35:07.840
His whole thing is being extravagant, going over the top.

01:35:07.840 --> 01:35:09.840
So he needs to constantly one up himself.

01:35:09.840 --> 01:35:10.840
It's like, what's he going to do next?

01:35:10.840 --> 01:35:12.840
He gave away a one million dollar Island.

01:35:12.840 --> 01:35:13.840
He gave away like a private jet.

01:35:13.840 --> 01:35:18.840
He gave away, he did the fricking squid game challenge in real life.

01:35:18.840 --> 01:35:22.840
And it's like, at a certain point, how do you continually one up yourself?

01:35:22.840 --> 01:35:27.840
Cause I actually did enjoy his earlier videos that weren't even, didn't cost that much.

01:35:27.840 --> 01:35:31.840
There was the one where it's like, we made, we bought a million Orbeez and we put it in the backyard.

01:35:31.840 --> 01:35:35.840
It's just like this ball, like plastic ball that expands when you put water in it.

01:35:35.840 --> 01:35:37.840
It's like something silly like that.

01:35:37.840 --> 01:35:45.840
But now it's always like we're giving away $500,000 for people who don't leave the circle for the longest time or something.

01:35:45.840 --> 01:35:51.840
And I'm like, I'm not as interested anymore just because I feel like they're all getting very, very similar.

01:35:51.840 --> 01:35:55.840
They're like, they're all extremely money focused.

01:35:55.840 --> 01:36:00.840
Um, but then like, I don't know how he can continually top just from the economics of it.

01:36:00.840 --> 01:36:02.840
Like if he makes a video saying, I'll give away a million.

01:36:02.840 --> 01:36:04.840
And then the next bit being like, I'll give away 2 million.

01:36:04.840 --> 01:36:07.840
I'll give away, I don't know, 3 million.

01:36:07.840 --> 01:36:13.840
Like how do you continually monetize and keep on top of that while still getting the audience back?

01:36:13.840 --> 01:36:14.840
Yeah.

01:36:14.840 --> 01:36:15.840
I don't know.

01:36:15.840 --> 01:36:16.840
Yeah.

01:36:16.840 --> 01:36:17.840
It's difficult.

01:36:17.840 --> 01:36:26.840
I think, uh, you know, I mean the creator world is constantly expanding and who knows what the next kind of social media thing is.

01:36:26.840 --> 01:36:28.840
I mean, it's got a top tick tock.

01:36:28.840 --> 01:36:29.840
That's for sure.

01:36:29.840 --> 01:36:31.840
And that's going to be a huge task.

01:36:31.840 --> 01:36:34.840
So the next one that comes in and it's better than tick tock.

01:36:34.840 --> 01:36:37.840
Like I'm excited because, you know, tick tock is pretty cool.

01:36:37.840 --> 01:36:45.840
Um, you know, for all its pluses and negatives, the next one that's going to top this is going to be even crazier.

01:36:45.840 --> 01:36:46.840
You'd imagine.

01:36:46.840 --> 01:36:47.840
So yeah, it's exciting.

01:36:47.840 --> 01:36:48.840
Yeah.

01:36:48.840 --> 01:36:53.840
I think the next one is probably going to be some sort of AR VR types experience.

01:36:53.840 --> 01:36:55.840
And a lot of companies are trying to get in that.

01:36:55.840 --> 01:37:01.840
So like Facebook and Apple, Microsoft and people, they're like, okay, well you have a phone.

01:37:01.840 --> 01:37:04.840
What's better than a phone just like directly on your eyes.

01:37:04.840 --> 01:37:09.840
Just have fricking contact lenses or like a headset that you always wear a pair of glasses or something.

01:37:09.840 --> 01:37:10.840
Right.

01:37:10.840 --> 01:37:14.840
Uh, and I think that is going to be really scary because then we're going to start seeing ads in real life.

01:37:14.840 --> 01:37:21.840
We're going to, you know, our perception of reality is going to be so skewed.

01:37:21.840 --> 01:37:23.840
Like it's already skewed to an extent.

01:37:23.840 --> 01:37:27.840
Like I bet phone addiction is probably one of the most common addictions in the world at this point.

01:37:27.840 --> 01:37:31.840
Uh, but like imagine just from the time you wake up, have a fricking ad playing.

01:37:31.840 --> 01:37:40.840
It's like, Hey, a micro transaction, pay $5 to get rid of this good morning ad for, I don't know, this ambient light.

01:37:40.840 --> 01:37:42.840
That's going to wake you up or something.

01:37:42.840 --> 01:37:43.840
Yeah.

01:37:43.840 --> 01:37:48.840
Or like, uh, you know, the virtual reality where they just have all the food out for you from like Uber Eats.

01:37:48.840 --> 01:37:51.840
And it's like, you can pick in real life what it looks like and stuff.

01:37:51.840 --> 01:37:56.840
So, I mean, there's lots of cool stuff with it, but also you can imagine people will abuse, uh,

01:37:56.840 --> 01:38:00.840
AR and VR for various nefarious purposes.

01:38:00.840 --> 01:38:05.840
Um, you know, so it's interesting to see, but I think we're still probably a while away from that.

01:38:05.840 --> 01:38:12.840
What I've seen of, uh, you know, the Oculus and meta, it still seems very clunky and Sims-like for now.

01:38:12.840 --> 01:38:19.840
Um, you know, I think it's probably still several years away from being something worthwhile to be addicted to, I reckon.

01:38:19.840 --> 01:38:23.840
Yeah, it's definitely still a toy at this point.

01:38:23.840 --> 01:38:30.840
Um, haven't hit that sweet spot of affordability and usability and just user experience, honestly.

01:38:30.840 --> 01:38:33.840
Um, and people always say it's like, Oh, it's coming in the next 10 years.

01:38:33.840 --> 01:38:35.840
But people were saying that like 20 years ago.

01:38:35.840 --> 01:38:42.840
So it's, it's fairly hard to say, like, I think there will be that iPhone moment where someone releases a thing and then people are like, okay, this is it.

01:38:42.840 --> 01:38:43.840
Like, this is the thing.

01:38:43.840 --> 01:38:44.840
This is the next iPhone.

01:38:44.840 --> 01:38:47.840
Um, but definitely still not at that point yet.

01:38:47.840 --> 01:38:52.840
Yeah, probably I won't be on social media when that happens.

01:38:52.840 --> 01:38:58.840
Like, uh, you know, I just want to, I want to do like, just like a Houdini and just vanish.

01:38:58.840 --> 01:39:01.840
Uh, you know, at some point be like, where do you go?

01:39:01.840 --> 01:39:02.840
Hmm.

01:39:02.840 --> 01:39:03.840
Let's watch this guy now.

01:39:03.840 --> 01:39:06.840
You know, that's, that's cause I'm going to do that.

01:39:06.840 --> 01:39:07.840
Yeah.

01:39:07.840 --> 01:39:16.840
I, I guess, uh, a follow up question to that is like, what are your medium, long-term plans for your platform?

01:39:16.840 --> 01:39:21.840
Uh, I'd probably like to start a podcast at some point.

01:39:21.840 --> 01:39:29.840
Uh, I've been on a few podcasts, both virtual and in person, and I just enjoy having a conversation with someone.

01:39:29.840 --> 01:39:33.840
It's like a bit of a, bit of a lost arts, which is kind of making resurgence now.

01:39:33.840 --> 01:39:39.840
But, um, yeah, I really value having just a conversation with someone.

01:39:39.840 --> 01:39:47.840
Um, whether it's a stranger or a friend from online or a real person that you met and your friends with.

01:39:47.840 --> 01:39:48.840
It's really interesting.

01:39:48.840 --> 01:39:53.840
And, um, you learn new things from that and it opens up your experiences.

01:39:53.840 --> 01:40:02.840
So that's something I'd want to explore a podcast and how I would fit into the podcast world and how I would do, uh, maybe a book.

01:40:02.840 --> 01:40:07.840
I'd like to write a book about just, you know, maybe some health related thing.

01:40:07.840 --> 01:40:08.840
I don't know.

01:40:08.840 --> 01:40:11.840
And, um, yeah, that's it really.

01:40:11.840 --> 01:40:18.840
I mean, I would like to, when time allows, I would like to expand on my YouTube content and make more longer form content.

01:40:18.840 --> 01:40:32.840
Because I feel right now the kind of science and health and medical stuff I make would lend itself naturally to be expanded on more and have like, you know, five, six, 10, 15 minute, you know, videos where I can just pace it a bit more.

01:40:32.840 --> 01:40:37.840
Don't feel I have to rush things add some nuance to it because everything medical is nuanced.

01:40:37.840 --> 01:40:38.840
It's not black and white.

01:40:38.840 --> 01:40:40.840
So I think that would be something.

01:40:40.840 --> 01:40:45.840
But the thing with YouTube is, and I've made lots of long form YouTube videos over the years.

01:40:45.840 --> 01:40:47.840
It's so much time invested into it.

01:40:47.840 --> 01:40:52.840
Like, you know, it's not like TikTok where you can make 10 TikToks in an hour and just do that.

01:40:52.840 --> 01:40:56.840
But it's like, you can spend days working on one video.

01:40:56.840 --> 01:40:59.840
Like you can spend up to 60 hours editing a video.

01:40:59.840 --> 01:41:02.840
Um, and which I don't have time for.

01:41:02.840 --> 01:41:08.840
Uh, and I briefly had an editor, which I, um, you know, paid for, but that just wasn't sustainable.

01:41:08.840 --> 01:41:16.840
Um, you know, so yeah, I mean, that, that's the long, that's another sort of a sort of medium to long term plan.

01:41:16.840 --> 01:41:21.840
Get on that YouTube thing and relinquish TikTok a bit more and go more into the YouTube side of things.

01:41:22.840 --> 01:41:23.840
Yeah, that makes sense.

01:41:23.840 --> 01:41:26.840
And I definitely empathize a lot with the whole time thing.

01:41:26.840 --> 01:41:30.840
Um, so like most of my time, not with work, but I just spent most of my time with my kids.

01:41:30.840 --> 01:41:34.840
And it's like the TikTok format is so efficient.

01:41:34.840 --> 01:41:42.840
Like you said, you can make TikToks in an hour and that might reach millions of people, uh, just, you know, through the lottery system effectively.

01:41:42.840 --> 01:41:46.840
But like for a YouTube video, the level, the standard is so high these days.

01:41:46.840 --> 01:41:49.840
Like people are putting in their entire careers or livelihood.

01:41:49.840 --> 01:41:52.840
They have teams of editors making these videos.

01:41:52.840 --> 01:41:55.840
Like one video, like you said, can take 60 plus hours of editing.

01:41:55.840 --> 01:42:00.840
Um, and it's like, I'm just a dude making these things in like my bedroom.

01:42:00.840 --> 01:42:04.840
Like I'm not, I'm not trying to do this as like my job or anything.

01:42:04.840 --> 01:42:14.840
Um, but as far as like the book writing aspect, um, have you written things before or have you just been like an avid reader in the past?

01:42:15.840 --> 01:42:33.840
Uh, I've not written any books before, but, um, you know, my experience with writing is, um, you know, obviously from medical school has to do lots of long essays, but it also, uh, I, I publish a lot, um, like research articles, trials, uh, other kinds of studies that I do at work and things like that.

01:42:33.840 --> 01:42:39.840
So a lot of medical science publications and I turn through data and things like that.

01:42:39.840 --> 01:42:42.840
So it still lends itself to you writing stuff.

01:42:42.840 --> 01:42:53.840
And, um, I write like a weekly newsletter as well, which is definitely improved my writing skills and help to just find my voice.

01:42:53.840 --> 01:42:58.840
That's not like a scientific voice, but more like a, Hey, this is me talking to you, telling you stuff.

01:42:58.840 --> 01:43:02.840
And I think I've written like maybe 25 weeks worth of newsletters.

01:43:02.840 --> 01:43:06.840
So like, you know, kind of half a year, uh, and that's going well.

01:43:06.840 --> 01:43:17.840
So I think, uh, I'm finding my voice more and, um, you know, I think it's, yeah, it's, it's like, um, it's definitely like a thing that I'd be interested in doing.

01:43:17.840 --> 01:43:23.840
And, you know, it would be a huge project because, you know, it's not like writing like a thousand word email or something like that.

01:43:23.840 --> 01:43:26.840
It's a big, it's a big, it's a big commitment to write a book.

01:43:26.840 --> 01:43:39.840
But I think that would also lend itself well to me because I think being an author is something I've always wanted to do since like a very young age, like having a book and something that's your product, you know, like you've created that.

01:43:39.840 --> 01:43:41.840
It's quite cool.

01:43:41.840 --> 01:43:42.840
I think.

01:43:42.840 --> 01:43:43.840
Yeah, I agree with that.

01:43:43.840 --> 01:43:45.840
I think being an author, uh, definitely sounds very romantic.

01:43:45.840 --> 01:43:53.840
Um, I like looked into the economics of it and basically it's like, if you're looking to write for a living, maybe consider something else.

01:43:53.840 --> 01:43:56.840
Cause it's, people don't make very much money.

01:43:56.840 --> 01:44:07.840
Like even like one of my favorite fantasy authors, Brandon Sanderson, he talked about his progression and he's one of the top people in his niche, like fantasy, uh, fiction type novels.

01:44:07.840 --> 01:44:10.840
And he makes a lot less than you would think.

01:44:10.840 --> 01:44:17.840
Like I, I guess in my head I was thinking like, Oh, if you make it to the bestseller list, you're like this super rich multimillionaire dude.

01:44:17.840 --> 01:44:18.840
Right.

01:44:18.840 --> 01:44:23.840
Um, and it's like, no, they're making good money for sure, but it's not like crazy amounts of money.

01:44:23.840 --> 01:44:25.840
And these are like top people in their fields.

01:44:26.840 --> 01:44:31.840
Um, like you're not going to, you know, we're being like a JK Rowling type of person.

01:44:31.840 --> 01:44:34.840
That's like as likely as you being Elon Musk effectively.

01:44:34.840 --> 01:44:35.840
That's like, that's the point.

01:44:35.840 --> 01:44:37.840
No, no, no, 1%.

01:44:37.840 --> 01:44:38.840
Right.

01:44:38.840 --> 01:44:38.840
Yeah.

01:44:38.840 --> 01:44:47.840
If you get a movie made out of it, you know, Stephen King style, uh, he was like the original JK Rowling, like, you know, series of movies and still movies being made from.

01:44:47.840 --> 01:44:48.840
From his books.

01:44:48.840 --> 01:44:49.840
Yeah.

01:44:49.840 --> 01:44:51.840
You can, you stand to earn, you know, a shit ton of money.

01:44:51.840 --> 01:44:59.840
But yeah, for the average semi successful author, uh, you're not going to make loads unless you then transition that into something else.

01:44:59.840 --> 01:45:04.840
Like, you know, um, Matthew Walker wrote why we sleep the book, why we sleep.

01:45:04.840 --> 01:45:08.840
Um, you know, that was a worldwide international bestseller.

01:45:08.840 --> 01:45:10.840
And he probably made some decent money from that book.

01:45:10.840 --> 01:45:18.840
But then the book, the notoriety and the opportunities he got from that book probably landed him more success in the book himself.

01:45:18.840 --> 01:45:19.840
Okay.

01:45:19.840 --> 01:45:20.840
Wow.

01:45:20.840 --> 01:45:21.840
Sleep's important.

01:45:21.840 --> 01:45:22.840
This guy's like really smart.

01:45:22.840 --> 01:45:29.840
Um, you know, and he probably got approached by various venture capitalists and whatever to like, Hey, let's make some sleep product or whatever.

01:45:29.840 --> 01:45:30.840
Like, you know, that was probably his opportunity.

01:45:30.840 --> 01:45:42.840
So I think the book is maybe not a route to make money, but it's a route to like, be like, establish yourself as a professional, someone with knowledge, expertise.

01:45:42.840 --> 01:45:48.840
And you know, that could always lead to like a movie series, Netflix, whatever.

01:45:48.840 --> 01:45:54.840
Um, and then lead to other things, uh, podcasts or TV shows or guest appearances somewhere.

01:45:54.840 --> 01:45:57.840
And that's the thing I think, but it's just quite cool.

01:45:57.840 --> 01:46:04.840
Just beyond all of that, even if none of that happens, it's just like, Hey, yeah, I wrote a book, which random people over the world carry in their bags.

01:46:04.840 --> 01:46:11.840
Uh, and there are on their bookshelves, like a piece of you, a piece of your soul, a little Horcrux from you is in their house.

01:46:11.840 --> 01:46:13.840
Yeah, exactly.

01:46:13.840 --> 01:46:17.840
I think it's just, as you said, um, it's not the book writing itself.

01:46:17.840 --> 01:46:22.840
Like that has small chance of making you monetary value, but the exposure that you get from it.

01:46:22.840 --> 01:46:25.840
So a lot of people will say like, you know, don't work for exposure or whatever.

01:46:25.840 --> 01:46:28.840
Uh, but in this case it's more almost like a passion project.

01:46:28.840 --> 01:46:31.840
Um, and I think the same thing with TikTok as well.

01:46:31.840 --> 01:46:40.840
Like the views that you get, there's all sorts of people that are going to see your stuff, whether that's like venture capitalists, like you mentioned, or reporters or people on podcasts.

01:46:40.840 --> 01:46:54.840
Like the opportunities you get just from having the exposure or having from people see you or hear your opinions or see the content that you make actually grants you a lot more than the ad revenue would ever give you.

01:46:54.840 --> 01:47:08.840
Uh, just because you get that, like I had opportunities to invest in startups that I would have never previously gotten, um, gotten interviews from actual news publications, which like before I was just, you know, rando tech worker, number one.

01:47:08.840 --> 01:47:13.840
So it's, I think people both underestimate and overestimate.

01:47:13.840 --> 01:47:17.840
I think people overestimate the direct monetary value you'll get from social media.

01:47:17.840 --> 01:47:22.840
I think that's probably a magnitude or so lower than what people think they're going to get from it.

01:47:22.840 --> 01:47:28.840
Um, but then underestimate the number of like connections and opportunities that can arise from it.

01:47:28.840 --> 01:47:43.840
But also kind of depends on you to capitalize on those things because like, um, the type of content that you make, if you're only doing meme or trends or kind of comedic content, uh, a lot of these platforms don't reward that as much.

01:47:43.840 --> 01:47:49.840
And you're not going to get as much media exposure for it because there's so many people that do the exact same thing as you.

01:47:49.840 --> 01:47:52.840
So like, yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:47:52.840 --> 01:48:04.840
I mean, if you do a trend with a filter that gets a million views, there are a million, probably 10 million other people doing that exact same thing with that exact same filter and trend and that music.

01:48:04.840 --> 01:48:07.840
So it's kind of like, yeah, apart from TikTok, that's kind of flop.

01:48:07.840 --> 01:48:11.840
Like no one cares, uh, you know, being brutally honest.

01:48:11.840 --> 01:48:26.840
But if you make a video about something unique from your perspective or your anecdote, that's you, that's a video that is, can stand proud on any platform because that is just you, your voice, rather than using some animations and effects from TikTok.

01:48:26.840 --> 01:48:28.840
That's you're just leveraging the platform.

01:48:28.840 --> 01:48:32.840
You are leveraging yourself when you just talk about another subject.

01:48:32.840 --> 01:48:34.840
Yeah, you're exactly right.

01:48:34.840 --> 01:48:37.840
I think it's something that a lot of people don't realize.

01:48:37.840 --> 01:48:42.840
Like you hear the same advice through different formats and many different ways where people are like, no, just be yourself.

01:48:42.840 --> 01:48:47.840
And it sounds kind of like almost superficial or service level in a way.

01:48:47.840 --> 01:48:57.840
But then you come to realize eventually like, oh, unless you're an amazing actor and you can like fool people, like this is the best and easiest way to make content that will resonate with others.

01:48:57.840 --> 01:49:06.840
Because a lot of the times people will have similar experiences to you, like we're all human, we all go through things like being poor or being sad or being angry or having something shitty happen to us.

01:49:06.840 --> 01:49:08.840
And other people can relate and empathize with that.

01:49:08.840 --> 01:49:18.840
And even better, if you can tie that into a broader informational or educational or kind of like wisdom type of story where there's a lesson to be learned.

01:49:18.840 --> 01:49:22.840
Because I think just humans resonate with each other with stories.

01:49:22.840 --> 01:49:25.840
And that's why people need to read. That's why people love movies and media.

01:49:25.840 --> 01:49:33.840
That's why we love people who talk about themselves, because we want to kind of share in this collective human experience and learn from each other.

01:49:33.840 --> 01:49:45.840
Yeah, I agree. I think that's part of the community of TikTok and that's why putting your face around on videos more helps because it forms that connection as well.

01:49:45.840 --> 01:49:51.840
Yeah, exactly. To everyone watching, thank you for joining in. Thanks to Dr. Karan for joining us today.

01:49:51.840 --> 01:49:54.840
Do you have any parting words for our audience?

01:49:54.840 --> 01:49:57.840
Yeah, eat more fiber.

01:49:57.840 --> 01:49:59.840
All right. You heard it here. Eat more fiber.